The Tesla Thread

Well it's confirmed. 5k model 3s this week and 2000 Model S & X combined. 7000 cars in a week.

Still no solid figures on how this figure is put together but it's all progress in the right direction.
 
I guess his big tent in the car park has worked out then... still to be seen whether they critics citing likely quality control issues as a result will be shown to be correct or not
 
Loved the Steven Armstrong (Ford Chief Exec Europe etc) Tweet in response:

"7000 cars, circa 4 hours. Ford Team"

:p

Yes apples and oranges but still funny.
 
The reports that they are asking those who put down a refundable deposit of $1000 to now cough up a further $2500 non-refundable payment does indicate their cash flow issues are pretty bad...
 
VincentHanna said:
The reports that they are asking those who put down a refundable deposit of $1000 to now cough up a further $2500 non-refundable payment does indicate their cash flow issues are pretty bad...
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Err....

Its $1000 refundable deposit to put your name on the list.

When you then get offered to choose your configuration to have your car built, they then require a further $2500 downpayment to commit you to the purchase and build it.

Seems logical to me?
 
Looks like Tesla are going to be showing the Model 3 at the Goodwood Festival of Speed, in case anyone here is going and is interested.
 
TripleT said:
Loved the Steven Armstrong (Ford Chief Exec Europe etc) Tweet in response:

"7000 cars, circa 4 hours. Ford Team"

:p

Yes apples and oranges but still funny.
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Yeah, was funny to be fair to Ford. :D

However, when Ford are so late to the EV party that they no longer need to produce even 7000 cars per day, let alone in 4 hours, they won't be laughing they'll be scrambling to fix their antiquated company that has not produced anything remotely innovative in a generation or more. :)
 
Journey said:
However, when Ford are so late to the EV party that they no longer need to produce even 7000 cars per day, let alone in 4 hours, they won't be laughing they'll be scrambling to fix their antiquated company that has not produced anything remotely innovative in a generation or more. :)
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Ford's been making electric versions of the Focus since 2011, among other things. It's also planning on adding 16 pure EV models to its line-up by 2022, as well as some 24 hybrids.

Like most major manufacturers, its simply been waiting for a substantial enough market to appear. It all comes down to profitability, in most cases, not an outright lack of interest.

Just to put that in perspective, somewhat (off the top of my head): Tesla's revenue was $3.3 billion in 2017, compared to Ford's $157 billion. All in, Tesla lost $2 billion in 2017, whereas Ford profited by $8 billion.

Ford has also produced a considerable number of remarkable projects, cars and designs in lifespan (but you already knew that) – and in more recent years and decades. Far more than Tesla has to date.
 
Lashout_UK said:
Ford's been making electric versions of the Focus since 2011, among other things. It's also planning on adding 16 pure EV models to its line-up by 2022, as well as some 24 hybrids.

Like most major manufacturers, its simply been waiting for a substantial enough market to appear. It all comes down to profitability, in most cases, not an outright lack of interest.

Just to put that in perspective, somewhat (off the top of my head): Tesla's revenue was $3.3 billion in 2017, compared to Ford's $157 billion. All in, Tesla lost $2 billion in 2017, whereas Ford profited by $8 billion.

Ford has also produced a considerable number of remarkable projects, cars and designs in lifespan (but you already knew that) – and in more recent years and decades. Far more than Tesla has to date.
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I wasn't comparing them to Tesla, I said late to the EV party. VAG, $84 billion investment in EV and battery technology before 2030, it took Ford until this year, and they committed $11 billion only, which is less than the debt which Telsa will have accrued by 2022?

You also seem to think that making profit is important, if you are a fledgling company with grand ideas, and are pushing towards something to replace the incumbent technology, profit doesn't come first, it comes after. Take a look at Tesla himself, obsessed with getting alternating current working no matter what the cost, he wasted so much money it was unreal for the time and people doubted, and tried to drag him down, I ask you where are we today?

I don't think Ford has produced anything innovative in over a generation, as I stated, if you can give me an example of an original globally reaching idea/invention they have come up with since 1990, then please share, since I can't think of any.

Don't get me wrong I've got nothing against Ford/VW/GM/BMW etc. but it took an "idiot" with a grand vision to get them to sit up and start thinking, and only now that it looks like they might having to start to compete to keep their profits and market share that they actually seem to care.

I for one welcome the technology change over the next decade, and I will laugh at those holding on to their horse and cart while the rest of the world moves forward, hopefully to make it a nicer place to live. :)
 
Journey said:
I wasn't comparing them to Tesla, I said late to the EV party.
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Ah, my mistake! :)

VAG, $84 billion investment in EV and battery technology before 2030, it took Ford until this year, and they committed $11 billion only, which is less than the debt which Telsa will have accrued by 2022?
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I think VW's only committed $10 billion so far – but it is promising to spend the additional $74 billion up to 2030. Must admit I've not read much further on it than that, mind! A lot could change in those decades, for both companies.

You also seem to think that making profit is important, if you are a fledgling company with grand ideas, and are pushing towards something to replace the incumbent technology, profit doesn't come first, it comes after.
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Perfectly fine, of course – but there has to come a point where the company becomes a viable entity, with my level-headed cap on. Ford made a profit in its first year. :p Obviously in no way comparable but still... Tesla was founded in '03, made its first cars in '08 and it's still yet to turn a profit – all while increasingly going off the rails.

I don't think Ford has produced anything innovative in over a generation, as I stated, if you can give me an example of an original globally reaching idea/invention they have come up with since 1990, then please share, since I can't think of any.
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First production reversing sensors, the roll stability system that went into the XC90, adaptive cruise control (pretty sure), engine oil analysers, first heated windshield (although that was a little earlier), first hybrid SUV, first AWD hybrid, first ten-speed auto (in conjunction with GM). Plus countless superb engines, many of which won awards, the introduction of fine-handling cars such as the Mondeo and Focus – proving family transport didn't have to be dull as dishwater – as well as things like the GT.

Then there are things like its numerous hydrogen (built the first US hydrogen filling station) and electric prototypes and developments, as well as myriad odds and sods like the social/healthcare stuff it does. Never really slows down! Example:

"Innovators at Ford submitted nearly 6,000 new inventions [they mean patents, really] in 2015, with many related to autonomous and connected vehicles, wearable devices, eBikes, navigation, ride-sharing platforms and other technologies – an increase of 36 percent from 2014. These include technologies to help autonomous vehicles detect other vehicles at obstructed intersections, technologies to alleviate range anxiety in electrified vehicles and to extend range in real-world driving. Another new invention is designed for cyclists – allowing riders to report road obstacles to help other riders."

Don't get me wrong I've got nothing against Ford/VW/GM/BMW etc. but it took an "idiot" with a grand vision to get them to sit up and start thinking, and only now that it looks like they might having to start to compete to keep their profits and market share that they actually seem to care.
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It's an interesting point of conversation, that. Would they have behaved differently if Tesla didn't exist? There's a lot driving the adoption of EVs and, while there's an awful lot of bluster about Tesla, its cars are no longer usually the reason for all the headlines.

Similarly, are the likes of Ford concerned about Tesla stealing its market share? Well, seeing as there are no products from either that are direct rivals (or even customers that might cross-shop the two), probably not – yet...
 
Lashout_UK said:
First production reversing sensors, the roll stability system that went into the XC90, adaptive cruise control (pretty sure), engine oil analysers, first heated windshield (although that was a little earlier), first hybrid SUV, first AWD hybrid, first ten-speed auto (in conjunction with GM). Plus countless superb engines, many of which won awards, the introduction of fine-handling cars such as the Mondeo and Focus – proving family transport didn't have to be dull as dishwater – as well as things like the GT.

Then there are things like its numerous hydrogen (built the first US hydrogen filling station) and electric prototypes and developments, as well as myriad odds and sods like the social/healthcare stuff it does. Never really slows down! Example:
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Invention(s), not random additions of things that already existed, but slightly refined or upgraded. Parking sensor was invented by a British bloke in the 1970's/80's I think, and the first mainstream car to use parking sensors was the Toyota Prius I believe, circa ~2002/3 maybe? They invented a more complicated gear box, instead of just getting rid of it like we are doing now. :p I don't count a better handling car as an invention. Not sure about the engine oil analyser, wasn't that nicked from one of the F1 development teams?

It's a shame they didn't actually get behind Hydrogen properly either, half ass'd job, they don't even make a fuel cell car, concepts only so far, unlike the Japanese, Korean companies who are actually producing fuel cell vehicles, than you can buy, who would have thunk it, heh.

You notice that the list of actual patents all revolve around ultra modern technologies like autonomous driving, electric vehicles range, and such but all after other people were starting to do this? I am not saying they haven't lead the way in somethings, but they seriously need to start thinking outside the box, not just reading someone else box and putting extra flaps, on, and some holes in it etc. :)

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand the Model 3.. derail finished! :)
 
Journey said:
Invention(s), not random additions of things that already existed
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If you apply that logic to Tesla, you get what? A company that's never done anything new in its existence. :D

You notice that the list of actual patents all revolve around ultra modern technologies like autonomous driving, electric vehicles range, and such but all after other people were starting to do this?
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It's just a tiny, fractional example of some of the patents it's been submitting in recent years. Of course that's going to represent current stuff, for the most part. Don't read too much into that!
:)

No need to worry about derails, this stuff's interesting to talk about! :)
 
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Journey said:
mainstream car to use parking sensors was the Toyota Prius I believe, circa ~2002/3 maybe?
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I won't pick apart the rest but Ford had 'em in '99. :)

Most of the American companies have always been decades ahead of their European rivals, on the tech front, credit where it's due.
 
Lashout_UK said:
If you apply that logic to Tesla, you get what? A company that's never done anything in its existence. :D
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I would say you are 95% correct, I am pretty sure they'll have one or two things in their patent portfolio that other large vehicle manufactures will be paying to license in the future though.

You have to ask yourself, if I dunno lets says Apple didn't bother to enter the phone market, would we be where we are today? I know they were an already established brand, so it's not a direct comparison, but will we be comparing feature phones to ICE cars soon? You've go to look at who made the shift possible, believable, and do-able, I know there were others hard at work too, so I am not saying it was all one company, but you could end up looking at Tesla as the Apple of the car world, and be paying Tesla Tax in future, while others will be happy with their Hyundai EV/LG phone for less money which does almost the same thing. :)
 
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