The Tesla Thread

[b0rn2sk8]

European Model 3 is confirmed to have CCS and all European superchargers will be retrofitted to include an extra CCS cable. I can certainly say I didn't see that one coming...

Will be interesting to see if people start trying and failing to charge other cars on them.....

S and X will also get an adaptor to use CCS.

I cant see any negatives to this.

 

[Phate]

European Model 3 is confirmed to have CCS and all European superchargers will be retrofitted to include an extra CCS cable. I can certainly say I didn't see that one coming...

Will be interesting to see if people start trying and failing to charge other cars on them.....

S and X will also get an adaptor to use CCS.

I cant see any negatives to this.

Yeah I saw this today. Big positive. What I couldn't understand was, would a standard type 2 connector still work? Maybe a dim & obvious question but I'd rather ask

Also it means access to these other ultra fast chargers like the 350KW ones etc. - it'll be interesting to see how fast people get to see it charge!

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Probably seen it already but I found this interesting

Does strike me as strange the issues with the shell.

Given that video was from Bloomberg it was pretty shocking, it had some pretty big editorial issues that even I spotted on the first watch. They had Model S b-roll even though the video was exclusive to Model 3 and the had a picture of a Chevy Volt but said they benched it against a Bolt which is a completely different car.

What they said about the body is interesting, they describe it as expensive, complex, heavy, too stiff and hard to manufacture.

What I can't really understand is that you have Munro who are generally respected in the field saying the body 'design is so poor' yet the NHTSA say the Model 3 offers the lowest probability of injury in a Model 3 over any other car tested.

That's not to say the body design couldn't be improved but one of the key features of a car for me is the protection it offers me in a crash and the body is a key component of that so they must be doing something right. That being said they were very positive about the rest of the car.

https://electrek.co/2018/10/07/tesla-model-3-lowest-probability-of-injury-nhtsa/

Some of the crash test video's are eye opening when compared to pretty safe ICE cars...

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Yeah I saw this today. Big positive. What I couldn't understand was, would a standard type 2 connector still work? Maybe a dim & obvious question but I'd rather ask

Also it means access to these other ultra fast chargers like the 350KW ones etc. - it'll be interesting to see how fast people get to see it charge!

Seems the ionity stuff is making progress in Europe, I’m following a UK driver who has his I Pace now and is touring Europe. Last night did 130mph on Autobahn and has charged at 82k from I’ve seen, charges at what seems a 200A max.

350kW is the Porsche model where they are going (I think) with smaller packs but rapid charging and hence the architecture is setup on a 800V system to manage the current levels rather than 350-400.

 

[Amp34]

European Model 3 is confirmed to have CCS and all European superchargers will be retrofitted to include an extra CCS cable. I can certainly say I didn't see that one coming...

Will be interesting to see if people start trying and failing to charge other cars on them.....

S and X will also get an adaptor to use CCS.

I cant see any negatives to this.

It was inevitable. EU legislation means any future supercharger has to have a CCS connection and (IIRC) new cars also have to have them. It was just a matter of time before they announced it. It'll be interesting to see if Tesla open up the supercharger network to anyone in future, and if they start installing CCS in North America (where there isn't a legal requirement to do so).

It's also beneficial from an owners point of view. CCS is already larger than the supercharger network (and that disparity will only increase) so it means more charger locations for Tesla owners.

 

[Phate]

Hi all,

For anyone thats interested, I just got back from the Lisbon Tesla store which has the Model 3 in store. So I've had a chance to have a good sniff around the car, sit inside, play with the screen etc and ask some questions. First up, pics.

Its a long range single motor Model 3 with the red paint, black interior and 20" alloys which are an optional extra (I think they are the 20s anyway, they're non standard, I know that much)

The car itself I personally think is stunning, the red colour is bright and vibrant and very appealing, it won't be my colour of choice but its a strong contender for second choice. I walked all around the car and checked out a few things. The door handles I think are going to throw off most people - I only knew from nerding out over it on the internet. But not impossible to figure out. The boot is very spacious and the frunk is a good size for a couple of bags of shopping or a decent size duffle bag. Think cabin bag sized limitations and you're on the right track. This one had the US charging port but its been confirmed as mentioned above the Europe spec ones will have CCS charging as its becoming the most adapted one here.

The doors had a very solid feeling to them when closing. The interior itself I thought felt fantastic. I am regularly in my friends 4 Series BMW and the interior materials felt on par if not better than that. Even though I think its worth mentioning I am no interior snob or specliast. Overall it feels excellent, the vegan leather is very soft and nice to touch. Continuing on with the interior I LOVED the minimalistic approach to it. its so clean due to the lack of buttons and "standard" dash board. As soon as I got in the whole thing felt very very relaxing and the seat itself felt very comfortable.

The screen, probably the most polarising feature of the car. Initially in photos I saw online it looked huge, its hard to describe but it just...fits. It doesn't look out of place at all. I've tried to imagine it when in other cars. But I realised what they have done is reduced overall how close the dashboard is to you and stuck the screen on front of that, which makes room for it. Browsing around it felt quite intuitive, but I imagine non-techy people might struggle a bit with it at first. However you can control almost all of it via voice control, which I tried and it worked great. Mapping was epically fast, you can tell it runs the Google Maps API. Showed all the Tesla Superchargers plus other destination chargers at the touch of a button. Above is a plot to my wifes home town inc the charge stop needed as it takes into account its current charge. All nice and clear, self explanatory on this part. I also sat in the back, I know I'm a short arse at 5ft 7" but there was PLENTY of room. Tall people will not struggle.

Other things:

- No official word on pricing yet, although many are guessing a start price of 41-42k for the Long range model
- Test drives should be available on Jan/Feb, so fingers crossed on that one.
- Orders for reservation holders to be open in Late December, deliveries beginning late Feb/early March

For me, I was convinced already. The car is everything I want and for the money I feel like you're getting a lot of car...like, a LOT. FWIW I didn't notice any panel gap alignment issues or quality concerns overall. Also the steering wheel felt fantastic. The big question now is the price. If its getting close to the 50k mark then it's going to be too expensive for me I think. But if its early/mid 40s then we're good to go. Its via my work company car allowance scheme which I should be eligible for next year. Fingers crossed!

Apologies for the bad quality shots. I only had my phone with me. Wife wants to go and see it so I'll take my camera with me then.

 

[Journey]

It's a nice car, when we had a go in one while in the US, I thought the ride was nice and the interior was very minimalistic, and we were tempted but wanted to wait for competitors to show their wares.

For me the big issue Tesla will face in Europe, by the end of 2019 (when it might be available) is the price, the long range model looks to be 45k+ and compared to the far eastern offerings is 50% more nearly. Maybe it will be like an iPhone and hold its value better but given the rate of EV development I can't see a Gen 1 Model 3 doing that.

 

[Phate]

Most of Europe is getting their deliveries starting at the end of Q1 2019. RHD countries like the UK won't be until the second half of 2019 anyway.

For me what does it is the range. The other offerings simply don't have the range capacity that this does. Which makes it one of, if not the only option right now. I am convinced I want an EV as a next car. Once we have this my wife will look to exchanging our ageing Passat to a Nissan Leaf or Renault Zoe. We'll be fully electric then.

If I didn't have the option of the company car allowance, this wouldn't be on the table for me. I'll be interested to see how it holds its value but its not a "big" concern for me in the same way it will be for many others.

 

[Journey]

For me what does it is the range. The other offerings simply don't have the range capacity that this does. Which makes it one of, if not the only option right now

Kona and Niro do 300 miles at less than 30k with the 64KWh pack, Kona is available now, Niro in a couple of months. Not as fancy as the Tesla granted but they are nice cars at an affordable price, Tesla need to boost supply to Europe faster or they'll get left behind I fear.

 

[Phate]

Kona and Niro do 300 miles at less than 30k with the 64KWh pack, Kona is available now, Niro in a couple of months. Not as fancy as the Tesla granted but they are nice cars at an affordable price, Tesla need to boost supply to Europe faster or they'll get left behind I fear.

I read they were having battery manufacturing problems. One report showing a couple of thousand leaving the factory per month. The Model is up to 5k a week from the latest reports. I am not disagreeing with you that there is a chance that Tesla could get left behind. But other manufacturers are now facing the struggles Tesla have had to overcome with mass producing an EV.

Also the problem with Kona & Niro for me is they are SUV/MPVs which I don't want. I want a saloon.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Kona and Niro do 300 miles at less than 30k with the 64KWh pack, Kona is available now, Niro in a couple of months. Not as fancy as the Tesla granted but they are nice cars at an affordable price, Tesla need to boost supply to Europe faster or they'll get left behind I fear.

Doubt it, both of those two cars are an order of magnitude more production constrained than the Model 3 and more equivalent to a Mazda or Nissan rather than a BMW. Its priced about right IMO, the equivalent Kona is still £36k so a long range premium Model 3 at £45k isn't that far off. Those cars more closely cross shop with a Leaf/Ampera-E in terms of price/quality than a Model 3.

@Phate - good write up, any more comments on the interior? Anything obviously missing like handles, shirt hooks, luggage hooks, tie down points etc? How was the height of the rear bench, I have heard its pretty low due to the slightly higher floor.

 

[Phate]

@Phate - good write up, any more comments on the interior? Anything obviously missing like handles, shirt hooks, luggage hooks, tie down points etc? How was the height of the rear bench, I have heard its pretty low due to the slightly higher floor.

Yes one particular comment, the member of staff in the car with me didn't know how to use the proper door open button and grabbed the emergency release handle on the passenger side to get out. I stopped her and told her what it was and she didn't know. They had only had the car since Thursday I guess. But it does show that that itself isn't intuitive. I'll be bloody tempted to get some "Emergency only" stickers for mine and look for a creative way of making the button more obvious. I did like the button release however. Quick press and the door pops loose.

I didn't notice anything in particular missing. I was impressed by the sheer amount of storage in the centre console, you could store months worths of emergency rations in there! Quality wherever I touched was felt. Absolutely nothing I touched felt cheap to me. As mentioned, it feels on par or in some areas better than my friends 4 series. When I go back with the wife I'll check for the things you mention.

When I sat in the back the rear bench didn't feel particularly off in any way, the whole design of the car feels very well thought out tbh.

 

[Journey]

Doubt it, both of those two cars are an order of magnitude more production constrained than the Model 3 and more equivalent to a Mazda or Nissan rather than a BMW. Its priced about right IMO, the equivalent Kona is still £36k so a long range premium Model 3 at £45k isn't that far off. Those cars more closely cross shop with a Leaf/Ampera-E in terms of price/quality than a Model 3.

£32.5k OTR, delivery by Aug '19. If you order a Tesla model 3 in the UK it's £45k+ for same range and delivery in 2020+ if you order now. So what do you doubt exactly? That they will get left behind if they don't hurry up EU deliveries? Who do you think can scale up faster it's a 50/50 but you can be sure that Tesla will prioritise the NA market over the EU day-after-day zero questions asked.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

£32.5k OTR, delivery by Aug '19. If you order a Tesla model 3 in the UK it's £45k+ for same range and delivery in 2020+ if you order now. So what do you doubt exactly? That they will get left behind if they don't hurry up EU deliveries? Who do you think can scale up faster it's a 50/50 but you can be sure that Tesla will prioritise the NA market over the EU day-after-day zero questions asked.

I doubt Tesla will get 'left behind' given they are still years ahead of most car companies. Not wanting to get into an argument or anything but a £32k Kona is in no way equivalent to a Premium Model 3 not even close, the top end Kona starts at £36k and still a significant step down in terms of quality and features. Its a step down from the Ionic in terms of quality and that's not close to the Model 3 either.

Putting aside the pull of the Tesla brand the cars do not cross shop generally and the only reason people put them together is because they are both an EV with 300 miles rage that doesn't cost £100k. Putting that aside pretty much all EV's bar the Zoe are production contained, demand is out stripping supply and there is clearly space for both in the market.

Tesla will prioritise the EU market over making a $35k Model 3 in the USA, that much is very clear they need to make as much money as they can in the short term. Turning on Europe and Asia is exactly why Tesla will continue to do record revenue for the next year or two before the next car comes out. As Phate said the Kona is delivering a few K a month which is also wold wide, most of that production is going into Korea and not the UK, let alone Europe. Kia/Hyundai can not scale up because they don't have sufficient supply of batteries to make the cars in the short term.

 

[Firestar_3x]

So the 3s' interior quality and finish is better than the Model S?

The quality would need to be leaps and bounds above what the S offers to rival or exceed BMW.

 

[Phate]

So the 3s' interior quality and finish is better than the Model S?

The quality would need to be leaps and bounds above what the S offers to rival or exceed BMW.

I haven't been in an S so I can't comment. I did ask for a test drive though so I'll get back to you.

Of course it's entirely subjective but the Model 3's interior felt as good as, if not better than a 4 Series BMW I've been in recently (and driven)

 

[Amp34]

There’s no way the long range model is going to start at 40k euros. Maybe the short range black base model?

The mid range rear wheel drive model is 40,000 euros ($46k) ex tax and the long range dual motor is 46,000 euros ex tax (at today’s exchange rates) so at a guess you’re looking at around 50,000 euros inc tax (as long as there’s no additional duty).

Perhaps I’m wrong though, and they’ll undercut their US prices significantly.

Edit: 10% duty on US cars into Europe, transportation fees of around $2000 (in the US it’s another $1000 on the price quoted above) plus Portugal’s 23% VAT rate, all on top of the prices listed above, just for Tesla to get the same profit on a vehicle sold in Europe. So even 50,000 euros may be a bit low, you may well be looking at over 55,000 euros for a black long range (although that may come with the premium pack).

 

[Amp34]

£32.5k OTR, delivery by Aug '19. If you order a Tesla model 3 in the UK it's £45k+ for same range and delivery in 2020+ if you order now. So what do you doubt exactly? That they will get left behind if they don't hurry up EU deliveries? Who do you think can scale up faster it's a 50/50 but you can be sure that Tesla will prioritise the NA market over the EU day-after-day zero questions asked.

Hyundai have said they plan to stick to around 30,000 EVs until at least 2021, so they’re not going to be producing many more than 2,000 a month for a while yet.

 

[Journey]

If you want the long range performance model with the likes of Auto pilot, better wheels, and fancy paint you'll be spending north of £60k quiet easily. That will get priority delivery as already said, not a £35k model, they will arrive in 2020-21.

 

[Amp34]

If you want the long range performance model with the likes of Auto pilot, better wheels, and fancy paint you'll be spending north of £60k quiet easily. That will get priority delivery as already said, not a £35k model, they will arrive in 2020-21.

Yeah, just comparing the prices of the Model S in the US and Portugal I’m guessing the long range rear wheel drive in black with
the PUP (no AP, upgrade wheels) will be 58,000 euros.

The Tesla 75D is $78,000, add $7,800 for duty, another $2000 for delivery and then multiply that by 23% for VAT and you get 108,000. That converts to 94,000 euros. The 75D is 93,500 euros in Portugal so it looks like it’s pretty bang on.