The thread which sometimes talks about RDNA2

[sprite-]

Nobody screwed up. Not AMD, not NVIDIA, not SONY... no one.

I see this crap being repeated on every forum almost. Omg sony failed with ps5 cause they couldnt see the demand and increase production ( replace sony with amd / nvidia etc etc ).

What do you get when you have limited production capabilities ( factories ) lots and lots of electronics launching the same year and the worst pandemic in the 21st century? Also with people being stuck inside their homes with even more disposable income that didnt get wasted on vacations / going out regularly and whatnot?

You get this. And there is nothing any company could have done to prevent this.

Nobody could have predicted the demand, sure. Also Sony and Microsoft launched in line with their typical releases.

However....

Nvidia and AMD released way less stock than they typically do for a launch, Gibbo here and many other retailers across the globe have confirmed this. So yes, they did mess up. They rushed out their Products. Had they not... would have it of solved the problem? No, it would still have been hard to get one. Just not quite the epic clusterfook that it's been.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Lol people dreaming to see games with graphics so heavy that it will bury the competition. Instead of dreaming to see beautiful games that run on any decent hw, like that freaking Gears 5 DLC. That is a beautiful game and it runs fine on everything. Too bad it is too short.
Instead of hoping that Cyberpunk will be improved, patched for AMD and once AMD will release their resolution upscaling you will be able to play it with RT on AMD cards and on consoles, people are happy because they can play a crappy version of the game that runs bad even with upscaling while those with new consoles or AMD cards can't do that.
If we see tomorrow a crappy game that uses 15Gb of Vram some AMD 6000 owners will play it and praise it just because the 3080 owners can't run it at highest settings.

I'm not confident that they will optimize the game for AMD let alone console in a timely fashion. Investors are set to allegedly file a lawsuit against CDPR do to how the game is released. That's the rub of it all. CDPR should not expect users with other hardware to pay full price for the game 3-5 months after release. Only because that's when they finally decide to fix it. At that point it's bargin bin pricing for the game. Thus they will never recoup the amount of extra resources they had to put into the game post release. And, whatever happens to the alleged lawsuit they are facing.

 

[Richdog]

Nobody screwed up. Not AMD, not NVIDIA, not SONY... no one.

I see this crap being repeated on every forum almost. Omg sony failed with ps5 cause they couldnt see the demand and increase production ( replace sony with amd / nvidia etc etc ).

What do you get when you have limited production capabilities ( factories ) lots and lots of electronics launching the same year and the worst pandemic in the 21st century? Also with people being stuck inside their homes with even more disposable income that didnt get wasted on vacations / going out regularly and whatnot?

You get this. And there is nothing any company could have done to prevent this.

Man you talk a lot of ****.

 

[HEADRAT]

Nobody screwed up. Not AMD, not NVIDIA, not SONY... no one.

I see this crap being repeated on every forum almost. Omg sony failed with ps5 cause they couldnt see the demand and increase production ( replace sony with amd / nvidia etc etc ).

What do you get when you have limited production capabilities ( factories ) lots and lots of electronics launching the same year and the worst pandemic in the 21st century? Also with people being stuck inside their homes with even more disposable income that didnt get wasted on vacations / going out regularly and whatnot?

You get this. And there is nothing any company could have done to prevent this.

Honestly I don't even know where to start, lots of other industries have high demand but we don't the absolute failure of supply and the gouging that we've seen in recent months with the CPUs/GPUs and the new Consoles.

 

[Troezar]

Honestly I don't even know where to start, lots of other industries have high demand but we don't the absolute failure of supply and the gouging that we've seen in recent months with the CPUs/GPUs and the new Consoles.

Very few manufacturers in this game. Popular products, entertainment for the masses and not that easy to or possible to ramp up production past a certain point. I'm sure they'd love to sell us every single product we want and make huge profits off the volume. Most of these excess profits will never benefit the manufacturers.

 

[HEADRAT]

Very few manufacturers in this game. Popular products, entertainment for the masses and not that easy to or possible to ramp up production past a certain point. I'm sure they'd love to sell us every single product we want and make huge profits off the volume. Most of these excess profits will never benefit the manufacturers.

What you mean like Apple, OK there can sometimes be shortages at launch but not the **** show we've seen recently from AMD/SONY/NVIDIA/Microsoft, also I don't think I've every seen the price gouging we've seen recently with GPUs with Apple products?

 

[Troezar]

What you mean like Apple, OK there can sometimes be shortages at launch but not the **** show we've seen recently from AMD/SONY/NVIDIA/Microsoft, also I don't think I've every seen the price gouging we've seen recently with GPUs with Apple products?

I've no idea what Apple's supply agreement is bit they are used to supplying millions of devices do are no doubt better prepared and have a much broader customer base. As far as gouging is concerned, some would argue Apple have already priced in the gouging themselves

 

[Zeeflyboy]

I honestly don’t see how the argument can be made that it’s just crazy demand when eg gibbo didn’t even get enough 6900’s or 6800XT AIBs to even bother launching them until January...

Yes, demand is absolutely bonkers but it has be compounded by a shocking lack of supply. You could argue it’s understandable given the world situation and the fact that AMD are currently trying to do it all (new GPUs, New CPUs, new console APUs) at once, but it is still their decision when to launch so it’s a rod they made for their own back.

AMD had a great chance to win me over from Nvidia, I was very much up for a 6800XT at £600 but unfortunately they couldn’t even offer me any realistic hope of getting one soon let alone at launch... in the mean time I managed to grab a 3070FE at rrp which will suffice for now.

Perhaps next gen they can both offer me an enticing card and one I can actually buy...

 

[Troezar]

I honestly don’t see how the argument can be made that it’s just crazy demand when eg gibbo didn’t even get enough 6900’s or 6800XT AIBs to even bother launching them until January...

Yes, demand is absolutely bonkers but it has be compounded by a shocking lack of supply. You could argue it’s understandable given the world situation and the fact that AMD are currently trying to do it all (new GPUs, New CPUs, new console APUs) at once, but it is still their decision when to launch so it’s a rod they made for their own back.

AMD had a great chance to win me over from Nvidia, I was very much up for a 6800XT at £600 but unfortunately they couldn’t even offer me any realistic hope of getting one soon let alone at launch... in the mean time I managed to grab a 3070FE at rrp which will suffice for now.

Perhaps next gen they can both offer me an enticing card and one I can actually buy...

You're right it's not just supply, as with all these things is likely much more complicated. There is excess demand and some people are seeing it as a chance to make hay while the sun shines. The fact there are groups running scalping operations points to a much more organised approach than the past. It's coinciding of a lot of factors leading to the current mess. I still don't think they'd not want to sell millions of cards at MSRP is they could. I presume they predict the expected sales and have a production run that can meet it. If demand is much higher they can't meet it. If they over produce that could be very expensive.

 

[4K8KW10]

Don't worry Nvidia is doing the same thing, no one stands still in this industry. While AMD is asking developers to use it's 16GB vram, Nvidia is pushing developers to include ray tracing in every game.

No one wins, we're gonna get games that need 16GB Vram and next gen RT cores - both RTX3080 and 6800XT stuck on 20fps, hoorah!



I agree its unlikely because that may require PC specific development - after all AMD's consoles don't have 16GB of VRAM, they have a max of 12GB dedicated VRAM.

12GB is still pretty good though, games like Miles Morales and Demon Souls have exceptional 4k textures that make use of that VRAM - PS5 exclusives look better than a whole bunch of AAA PC games.

I'm kinda sick of playing games at 4k and seeing anything under 10GB VRAM used and then it has low quality textures - bring on the 4k/6k/8k textures, I've got plenty of memory to spare

You kind of admit that investing in higher resolution textures is a more valuable feature for the gamers than ray-tracing which actually can't even be proved if it's fake or not (error correction or if it's really enabled in the first place), or if the classic lighting effects are not good enough and necessary for now, until the GPUs get more transistors so that the ray-tracing performance doesn't tank so awfully.

 

[q974739]

Question people - I've not been following updates. How is the general supply of AMD cards now? Are we still at "prayer" level?

Trying to avoid looking in general and getting... envious.. but I'd like an idea of the general situation?

 

[nvidiamd]

Many people think that consoles will hinder the graphics improvement in games but i think they are wrong.We see and will see more innovations because the lower hardware from the consoles will force the developers to become more creative.
Look at that video from DF with the hair in FIFA 21. Such a big improvement and resource friendly too compared to Jensen's hairworks. I think the big improvement about how RT is used in games will also come from the console game devs. If we leave that job to Jensen, we will all have 1000W videocards in PC's in 4-5 years.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Many people think that consoles will hinder the graphics improvement in games but i think they are wrong.We see and will see more innovations because the lower hardware from the consoles will force the developers to become more creative.
Look at that video from DF with the hair in FIFA 21. Such a big improvement and resource friendly too compared to Jensen's hairworks. I think the big improvement about how RT is used in games will also come from the console game devs. If we leave that job to Jensen, we will all have 1000W videocards in PC's in 4-5 years.

LOL, I know right?

Overall console developers have been able to leverage physics, ambient convulsion, tessellation and parallax occlusion mapping just fine. And they will continue to fine tune it as we enter this new era of gaming.
One thing they have up their sleeves though is HDR. When complimented properly does make a game 'pop'.

I truly don't see rt going no further then physx to be honest. It will be a flash in the pan sort of speak and then nothing regarding it for a while. If anything, rt will simply be something used to help speed up development time with absolutely no visual benefits for it. As, imo, the main attraction of it in gaming is to reduce cost while maintaining a healthy frame rate.

Take that game CB2077 and the info I posted in that other thread. That was not a game developed for console and they went all out for RT. The launch of the game was a huge disaster. No one is talking about it for it's RT only about the bugs.

That's the pure opposite of consoles hindering the graphics improvement. They did it to themselves. ROFL.

Tis but a flesh wound...

 

[nvidiamd]

Nvidia is doing what they should. Trying to sell their latest products by investing in games that run okish on their latest products. It is not their job to pay Cyberpunk developers to make their game run well on consoles. I would do the same thing if i were Jensen and he is selling a ton of videocards on PC.
Unfortunately AMD sponsored some crappy titles that not to many people will play on PC. The only one that is somewhat interesting is Farcry 6 and that one will be launched next year. So now people think that AMD can't do good RT because they see the numbers in Control or WDL and so on. Even if you are not sold to RT, you see the numbers and you see that a card is far behind the other. The other mistake they did was to clock their 6800xt very low and that gave them much lower 4k scores than the 3080. You can run the reference card just fine at 2.4-2.5 Ghz and then the score is similar with the 3080. But before that, you see the reviews and you see that the 3080 is ahead.

Ray tracing will be used a lot more in the future, even on consoles. And you are wrong, there are enough people that enjoy CP2077 and RT because Jensen knows how to promote and sell his stuff. But i think the biggest innovations will not come from Nvidia, they never did and they never will. They don't need that anyway they need the one thing that can help them to promote/sell their cards and i think they will always find something. It doesn't matter if it becomes an industry standard, if it helps them to sell one or two generations of cards, that is great.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Nvidia is doing what they should. Trying to sell their latest products by investing in games that run okish on their latest products. It is not their job to pay Cyberpunk developers to make their game run well on consoles. I would do the same thing if i were Jensen and he is selling a ton of videocards on PC.
Unfortunately AMD sponsored some crappy titles that not to many people will play on PC. The only one that is somewhat interesting is Farcry 6 and that one will be launched next year. So now people think that AMD can't do good RT because they see the numbers in Control or WDL and so on. Even if you are not sold to RT, you see the numbers and you see that a card is far behind the other. The other mistake they did was to clock their 6800xt very low and that gave them much lower 4k scores than the 3080. You can run the reference card just fine at 2.4-2.5 Ghz and then the score is similar with the 3080. But before that, you see the reviews and you see that the 3080 is ahead.

Ray tracing will be used a lot more in the future, even on consoles. And you are wrong, there are enough people that enjoy CP2077 and RT because Jensen knows how to promote and sell his stuff. But i think the biggest innovations will not come from Nvidia, they never did and they never will. They don't need that anyway they need the one thing that can help them to promote/sell their cards and i think they will always find something. It doesn't matter if it becomes an industry standard, if it helps them to sell one or two generations of cards, that is great.

Your post is completely anti-consumer and full of rubbish.

The problem with that kind of business model is that it's likely to backfire. Such is the case with that game. It's not a reasonable expectation to believe that any company should blackball the gaming industry by making future games exclusive to just them. That's simply self serving, narcissistic, low hanging fruit endeavors. Do to the actual cost of it all. For example someone is interesting in playing a game for $60 then have to pay another $800+ because it works with "this" video card isn't all that appealing. Based on how the market is now. Which is why the PC gaming market is more of a minority vs the console market.

And you are wrong, CB2077 is one of the worst games launches of 2020. It's a known fact based on the media, the fact that Sony blacklisted the game and MS offering refunds for the game. Do you honestly expect that we should ignore the game on other platforms? The fact that on PC the game is still full of bugs.

The fact of the matter is that one rogue developer working with nvidia is not the future for gaming. As the gaming market is heavily influenced by console.

Oh, btw, investors are planning on suing CDPR. I wonder if Nvidia will help with court costs? It would be nice to finally get some logic out of the discussion instead of a whole lot of emo "I love nvidia" posts.

As it stands now, to counter your ridiculous view point, AMD investing their IP into console was the best solution. As they don't have to "sponsor" a game. They simply need to gain developer mindshare who make them.

 

[DeathStorm]

Question people - I've not been following updates. How is the general supply of AMD cards now? Are we still at "prayer" level?

There's been more UFO sightings than 6800's.

I wonder how long I'm gonna be stuck with a 1070, it's kinda struggling at 3840 x 1600...

 

[nvidiamd]

It may be anti consumer but it sells cards.
Take Witcher III for example. It came from the same company with an useless feature that worked okish only on the latest Nvidia cards. The media made a big buzz about Gameworks and when it came it destroyed the AMD cards. It also destroyed older Nvidia cards but that was part of the plan. They sold new cards because people were made to believe that it is important to have nice hair in games and you can only have that if you have the latest Nvidia cards.
It doesn't matter if you or i think it is a shaddy business practice. It just works every time. I haven't bought Nvidia cards since the 580 but they sure know how to sell them.
AMD might be more consumer friendly but they don't sell their cards and their software support is crap. And also they don't have a big influence in the media and their engineers and marketing team seem more focused to the Trump/Biden war than to their products if you read their tweets. No roadmap for software, no information about the availability of the cards and so on.
We see a company that is good at selling their latest products and we see the other company that is doing a pretty bad job. And the funny thing is AMD is doing so great with the CPU's.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

It may be anti consumer but it sells cards.
Take Witcher III for example. It came from the same company with an useless feature that worked okish only on the latest Nvidia cards. The media made a big buzz about Gameworks and when it came it destroyed the AMD cards. It also destroyed older Nvidia cards but that was part of the plan. They sold new cards because people were made to believe that it is important to have nice hair in games and you can only have that if you have the latest Nvidia cards.
It doesn't matter if you or i think it is a shaddy business practice. It just works every time. I haven't bought Nvidia cards since the 580 but they sure know how to sell them.
AMD might be more consumer friendly but they don't sell their cards and their software support is crap. And also they don't have a big influence in the media and their engineers and marketing team seem more focused to the Trump/Biden war than to their products if you read their tweets. No roadmap for software, no information about the availability of the cards and so on.
We see a company that is good at selling their latest products and we see the other company that is doing a pretty bad job. And the funny thing is AMD is doing so great with the CPU's.

No, you have a misconception of how Nvidia dominated the market in the past decade or so. And it had a lot to do with AMD not competing until the 6000 series. It didn't just happen this year or last year.
Nvidia's TWIMTBP program dominated the PC gaming space while AMD did "nothing" about it to combat, challenge or overcome it. Until they decided to invest in console.

Therefore, you cant paint broad brush as if nvidia fought AMD in every generation and their shady business tactics won them over. It was do to AMD's complacency towards competing with nvidia that did that. AMD litterly handed them the market on a silver platter. Now lets see what they do now they have a better grip with console market and are now promoting CPU/GPU solutions. Something that neither Intel nor Nvidia can do.

Therefore, again how you see it is rubbish anti-consumer cheerleading at best.

 

[Richeh]

No, you have a misconception of how Nvidia dominated the market in the past decade or so. And it had a lot to do with AMD not competing until the 6000 series. It didn't just happen this year or last year.
Nvidia's TWIMTBP program dominated the PC gaming space while AMD did "nothing" about it to combat, challenge or overcome it. Until they decided to invest in console.

Therefore, you cant paint broad brush as if nvidia fought AMD in every generation and their shady business tactics won them over. It was do to AMD's complacency towards competing with nvidia that did that. AMD litterly handed them the market on a silver platter. Now lets see what they do now they have a better grip with console market and are now promoting CPU/GPU solutions. Something that neither Intel nor Nvidia can do.

Therefore, again how you see it is rubbish anti-consumer cheerleading at best.

Hello again

I agree with a lot of your points actually. But I would side step into saying they are business decisions, AMD has got a LOT better at this in the last couple of years but Nvidia has cemented their technology in a lot of areas that people listen to. I don't agree with some (a lot) of your early posts due to your bias. Ray tracing is here to stay, the steps of creating more real life like games includes ray tracing (unless some radical new technology emerges). AMD tried to push new tech a lot of the time in previous gens but due to their (lack) of market presence they didn't really take. Nvidia has the ability due to being very established and great at marketing to push new tech's much easier, RT being the first.

The whole AMD are doing well with RT considering they are a gen behind argument does not hold at all. People complained (as did I) that the 20 series like the 2080 barely improved rasterisation above the 10 series but just added RT and due to this people argued as to whether the addition of new tech vs old school rasterisation was worth it. But now we can see Nvidia added RT with similar Rast performance just to fill a gap. It doesn't matter if this is AMD's first attempt at RT, it is now 18 months behind Nvidias solution, except Nvidia happily competes on the normal Rasterisation numbers but you have RT added, and DLSS to get the performance bump which in certain settings creates very little graphical difference to native (not all, but most).

I would still say we are one gen away from truly useable RT performance in NV, but AMD needs to make a much bigger jump to catch up.

The new consoles will 100% help push PC gaming titles. The fact they now have multiple actual decent cores means this will be the base for PC which was hugely lacking on the last gen console's. Graphics power was already pretty good on the PS4 Pro and XB1X but the CPU's held them back. Now with the new gen truly using multiple cores but having access to new GFX technologies like RT which I truly believe will be a big selling feature for future games whatever the level included now that AMD can do it will still perform the best at highest graphical settings on PC with Nvdiai (for the moment) unless AMD make a big jump in that department, or another tech that the consoles suddenly introduce (and I mean suddenly as this isn't likely).

AMD has full on owned Intel this last gen, huge IPC and clockspeed increase leads them to leading in most games. The consoles and thus PC gamers will benefit from this. But GFX wise, AMD is just recovering with comparable Rast performance this gen. But new tech is required to push graphics further, not just framerates and AMD is on the back burner in this regard, they tried before but their limited market share and ability to throw money around has limited this. Hopefully now with a 'bigger budget' due to their success with CPU's they can push and jump on the bandwagon of new features which will catch up with Nvidia and we can truly get some next gen looking games.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Hello again

I agree with a lot of your points actually. But I would side step into saying they are business decisions, AMD has got a LOT better at this in the last couple of years but Nvidia has cemented their technology in a lot of areas that people listen to. I don't agree with some (a lot) of your early posts due to your bias. Ray tracing is here to stay, the steps of creating more real life like games includes ray tracing (unless some radical new technology emerges). AMD tried to push new tech a lot of the time in previous gens but due to their (lack) of market presence they didn't really take. Nvidia has the ability due to being very established and great at marketing to push new tech's much easier, RT being the first.

The whole AMD are doing well with RT considering they are a gen behind argument does not hold at all. People complained (as did I) that the 20 series like the 2080 barely improved rasterisation above the 10 series but just added RT and due to this people argued as to whether the addition of new tech vs old school rasterisation was worth it. But now we can see Nvidia added RT with similar Rast performance just to fill a gap. It doesn't matter if this is AMD's first attempt at RT, it is now 18 months behind Nvidias solution, except Nvidia happily competes on the normal Rasterisation numbers but you have RT added, and DLSS to get the performance bump which in certain settings creates very little graphical difference to native (not all, but most).

I would still say we are one gen away from truly useable RT performance in NV, but AMD needs to make a much bigger jump to catch up.

The new consoles will 100% help push PC gaming titles. The fact they now have multiple actual decent cores means this will be the base for PC which was hugely lacking on the last gen console's. Graphics power was already pretty good on the PS4 Pro and XB1X but the CPU's held them back. Now with the new gen truly using multiple cores but having access to new GFX technologies like RT which I truly believe will be a big selling feature for future games whatever the level included now that AMD can do it will still perform the best at highest graphical settings on PC with Nvdiai (for the moment) unless AMD make a big jump in that department, or another tech that the consoles suddenly introduce (and I mean suddenly as this isn't likely).

AMD has full on owned Intel this last gen, huge IPC and clockspeed increase leads them to leading in most games. The consoles and thus PC gamers will benefit from this. But GFX wise, AMD is just recovering with comparable Rast performance this gen. But new tech is required to push graphics further, not just framerates and AMD is on the back burner in this regard, they tried before but their limited market share and ability to throw money around has limited this. Hopefully now with a 'bigger budget' due to their success with CPU's they can push and jump on the bandwagon of new features which will catch up with Nvidia and we can truly get some next gen looking games.

You are very nvidia bias though. And you call me bias for being a realist. Your utopia can only happen if we all just buy nvidia. That is the crutch of your entire argument. That is not the market we are in. It's a duopoly shared by AMD/Nvidia and soon Intel. These companies are not your friend. They are not to be cheerlead with pom pom in hands because you believe they have something you favor. They are in it for the money. To profit off of you and to fill the coffers. I do believe that your faith in 'them' is misguided a to say the least.

Ray tracing didn't come from nvidia It was something demonstrated as far back as late 1970's. Ray tracing in games is not the future and no matter how much you think I'm bias in believing that it won't change my opinion. So we can only agree to disagree.

You think 'CB2077' is an example of optimal, next gen ray tracing worthy of ampere? I will tell you, unequivocally, that you are wrong, incorrect and not even close. You have been marketed to believe that it is. And you are also believe that some future gpu is within grasp to "make it better". Which is nothing more than chasing the wind.

Please understand that what we see in that game is something I consider "fake" ray tracing aka 'gaming ray tracing'. As it at best messing around with lighting, shadows, reflections, etc which only manipulates how the game is rasterized. Verses real ray tracing that you see in movies, videos, renders, etc. For example:



Now, do you see the above IQ in CB2077? Of course not. Yet you are parroting the same marketing rubbish that nvidia wants you to believe. At a substantial price premium mind you. This is why I don't believe in it. That's simply a brief example to open your eyes on what you are posting. As developers will never code a game to look like this because it's too costly. They won't code a game the way nvidia wants because it's too costly and it is only locked in with them. Which is why physx failed. Why hairworks failed. Why tessellation failed. See a trend? Which exemplify the definition of insanity.

AMD have the right idea of offering RT as a means to help with development time. Which is actually one of main factors of using it. As I said before, you will barely tell the difference. Dirt 5 is an example of that using shadows. You can't tell the difference but it helped the developer to implement. And it performed well. This is the way. IMO, the only way I see this variant of 'RT' and honestly my opinion won't change. Its not to say we won't see RT in games. The reflections in spiderman miles morales is a good example. However, AMD and console developers will dictate how rt will be used. As they control the narrative, not nvidia.


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In other news OEM 6800xt doing 2700MHz on water. I'm really starting to look at OEM now and just get that block.