The "Top Gear", Season 24/25/26 thread

Jonnycoupe said:
Probably missed the point and its go to heritage for many conversions and tuning options if you are just looking at numbers.
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No it’s just not in a different league. Doesn’t means it a bad engine but for example a different league would’ve been the B16 Honda engine which was being produced at the same time. 1600 160hp, vtec was way ahead of anything else being produced.
 
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Doobedoo said:
It wasn’t it I had 200 more cc and 11hp more. That’s it.

I once raced a Corsa b with a red top conversion it was closer than you think.
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Red top was 157 BHP, MK2 golf 16V was 137. That's 20 BHP not 11. In an N/A engine that's a massive difference. The SuperBoss in South Africa made 167BHP from factory. 30BHP difference.

The head was developed by cosworth and was basically a detuned race engine for the road. Do not let the numbers fool you. They are very conservative in base tune and very easily make over 200BHP with bolt ons. Race engines make over 300BHP which is enough to rival even a built K Series from an engine made in 1987!

A little excerpt for you about the torque of these engines. Taken from the Superboss Kadett that was sold in S/A.

"The result of all this was 125kW (170hp), not a huge number by today’s standards, but a decent amount in 1990. More impressive was the maximum torque figure of 228Nm, which equated to a naturally aspirated world record at the time of 114Nm per litre. In fact, this accolade stood until 2009 when it was finally eclipsed by the Ferrari 458 Italia (117Nm per litre)."

The B series engines from Honda with power didn't come out till 5-10 years later and used Vtec to achieve similar power levels with no where near the torque figures of the Vauxhall lump.

C20XE is one of the best 4 bangers ever made. It was the strongest engine on the grid when Cleland won the 95 BTTC powered by one in his cavalier.
 
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adam cool dude said:
Red top was 157 BHP, MK2 golf 16V was 137. That's 20 BHP not 11. In an N/A engine that's a massive difference. The SuperBoss in South Africa made 167BHP from factory. 30BHP difference.

The head was developed by cosworth and was basically a detuned race engine for the road. Do not let the numbers fool you. They are very conservative in base tune and very easily make over 200BHP with bolt ons. Race engines make over 300BHP which is enough to rival even a built K Series from an engine made in 1987!

A little excerpt for you about the torque of these engines. Taken from the Superboss Kadett that was sold in S/A.

"The result of all this was 125kW (170hp), not a huge number by today’s standards, but a decent amount in 1990. More impressive was the maximum torque figure of 228Nm, which equated to a naturally aspirated world record at the time of 114Nm per litre. In fact, this accolade stood until 2009 when it was finally eclipsed by the Ferrari 458 Italia (117Nm per litre)."

The B series engines from Honda with power didn't come out till 5-10 years later and used Vtec to achieve similar power levels with no where near the torque figures of the Vauxhall lump.

C20XE is one of the best 4 bangers ever made. It was the strongest engine on the grid when Cleland won the 95 BTTC powered by one in his cavalier.
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Except nowhere does is say that.

Powering the GTE is a 2.0 litre, naturally aspirated, four cylinder petrol engine, which pumps out 148bhp with 145 lb ft of torque. Originally though, the GTE had to make do with just 115bhp, but this was pumped up to around 125 following complaints about performance. That was the 8v version, however, whereas this model is the 16v, which is why it’s got the extra oomph.
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So basically it’s just the extra capacity that gives it those extra horses. If you mate the head from a KR in the Golf to the 2.0 bottom end of the 9A from the Corrado you’d get pretty much the same power.

The B16 was first produced with vtec in 1989.

In 1989, Honda launched the first generation B16 engine to the marketplace in the Integra XSi, and the CRX SiR, which later went on to birth a further six generations throughout its eleven-year lifespan.

The B16 was the first engine to integrate Honda’s soon-to-be-legendary VTEC system within an inline-4, lightweight aluminum block.

With the typically-exceptional build quality that we expect from Honda, combined with the ridiculous 9,000-rpm redline in stock form, it’s no wonder that the B16 became one of the most legendary JDM engines ever produced.
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Doobedoo said:
Except nowhere does is say that.



So basically it’s just the extra capacity that gives it those extra horses. If you mate the head from a KR in the Golf to the 2.0 bottom end of the 9A from the Corrado you’d get pretty much the same power.

The B16 was first produced with vtec in 1989.
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The GTE 16V were never 148BHP they were 157BHP in UK form. (Wikipedia is often wrong so stop copying from there) The later versions without the cosworth head in the MK3 astra yes but not the original. The B16 will also not have anywhere near the torque of the red top either and even still came out two years later than the red top.

2.0 ABF engines were also only making 148bhp in the mid 90's. Red top was doing that plus more a decade earlier.
 
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adam cool dude said:
The GTE 16V were never 148BHP they were 157BHP in UK form. (Wikipedia is often wrong so stop copying from there) The later versions without the cosworth head in the MK3 astra yes but not the original. The B16 will also not have anywhere near the torque of the red top either and even still came out two years later than the red top.

2.0 ABF engines were also only making 148bhp in the mid 90's. Red top was doing that plus more a decade earlier.
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It wasn’t Wikipedia.
carobsession.co.uk

Throwback Review: Vauxhall Astra Mk2 GTE 16v - Car Obsession

The 1980s was awash with hot hatchbacks such as the Volkswagen Golf GTi, the Peugeot 205 GTi, the Ford Escort RS Turbo, the list goes on and on. Recently I was able to have a quick spin in Vauxhall’s offering at the time – the Astra Mk2 GTE. Erm, that’s from the 1990s, not the […]
carobsession.co.uk carobsession.co.uk

Absolutely but like I said the difference in power at least on a standard engine is the extra capacity which can achieved by mating a 2 litre bottom end to the golf 16v head.

The torque difference of the B16 will also be down to capacity given it a 1.6 engine compared to a 2.0 of the Astra.

That being said they were quick cars my old man had one and those engines may well be very good in race tune, out of the factory they were in the same ballpark as some of the others.
 
Doobedoo said:
It wasn’t Wikipedia.
carobsession.co.uk

Throwback Review: Vauxhall Astra Mk2 GTE 16v - Car Obsession

The 1980s was awash with hot hatchbacks such as the Volkswagen Golf GTi, the Peugeot 205 GTi, the Ford Escort RS Turbo, the list goes on and on. Recently I was able to have a quick spin in Vauxhall’s offering at the time – the Astra Mk2 GTE. Erm, that’s from the 1990s, not the […]
carobsession.co.uk carobsession.co.uk

Absolutely but like I said the difference in power at least on a standard engine is the extra capacity which can achieved by mating a 2 litre bottom end to the golf 16v head.

The torque difference of the B16 will also be down to capacity given it a 1.6 engine compared to a 2.0 of the Astra.

That being said they were quick cars my old man had one and those engines may well be very good in race tune, out of the factory they were in the same ballpark as some of the others.
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That's a blatant lie as well. VTEC engines are notoriously lower on torque due the nature of how they make power. It has got nothing to do with the difference of CC in the engine. A K20 makes 215NM compared to 228NM of the old red top and has 30 more BHP and is about 15 years a newer engine.
 
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adam cool dude said:
That's a blatant lie as well. VTEC engines are notoriously lower on torque due the nature of how they make power. It has got nothing to do with the difference of CC in the engine.
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It’s not a lie. The more capacity you have the more torque you willor can produce. Vtec was revolutionary at the time 160hp from a 1.6 engine the way it did it was nothing like anything VW, Vauxhall, Ford ect had done.
 
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The more I’m reading the more I think I’m doing the red top a disservice. It is an impressive engine in the same way the little B16 is.

I guess you done really think of Vauxhalls when discussing cars. They are overlooked by the other manufacturers. It’s like the Corsa and Astra VXR’s decent cars but the Fords, VW’s, Hondas and Renaults are usually talk about in higher regards. I guess Vauxhalls just lack a certain amount of coolness or street cred.
 
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