The Windows 8 Thread

theheyes · 9 Sep 2011 at 17:13

I'd be careful about equating major OSX point releases to Windows service packs, because it's not really true. Even though I feel they are scraping the barrel a bit with Lion you can't deny that new features are being added. Windows service packs on the other hand are mostly roll ups of updates and very, very occasionally they add new things e.g. remoteFX. People only ever seem to remember XP SP2 when they talk about service packs.

In regards to the quick boot I can't say it excites me too much as I just put mine to sleep. Not complaining though and I'm liking the blog so far.

ng93 · 9 Sep 2011 at 17:39

theheyes said:
I'd be careful about equating major OSX point releases to Windows service packs, because it's not really true. Even though I feel they are scraping the barrel a bit with Lion you can't deny that new features are being added. Windows service packs on the other hand are mostly roll ups of updates and very, very occasionally they add new things e.g. remoteFX. People only ever seem to remember XP SP2 when they talk about service packs.

It's more that Lion doesn't have many new features itself, just ships with new versions of software which have new features. In the past these would just have been free software updates for Snow Leopard, but now Apple are charging for it

theheyes said:
In regards to the quick boot I can't say it excites me too much as I just put mine to sleep. Not complaining though and I'm liking the blog so far.

Quick boot should use less battery then sleep mode though (not that sleep mode uses a lot of battery, but every little helps)

.

Edit: and loving the blog too, it's a pleasant change having a company that puts out lots of information pre-release.

MR.B · 9 Sep 2011 at 17:51

theheyes said:
I'd be careful about equating major OSX point releases to Windows service packs, because it's not really true. Even though I feel they are scraping the barrel a bit with Lion you can't deny that new features are being added. Windows service packs on the other hand are mostly roll ups of updates and very, very occasionally they add new things e.g. remoteFX.

Most people think Service Packs are just a collection of previous updates but thats not the case. Theres many bug fixes that are only available in the Service Pack. Features are also added, Win 7 SP1 added quite a few, infact there was over 100 bug fixes and new features added that are specific to SP1 but i cant find the bloody list!... but most if not all of them are things the average user wouldn't notice, features like AVX (Advanced Vector Extensions), ability to restore previous folders at logon, or passive profile protocol. I think it's pretty fair to compare SP's to OSX updates.

Amp34 · 9 Sep 2011 at 19:49

NathanE said:
I paid £0?

£60 is the typical OEM price according to Google Shopping.

I have no idea where that confused face came from...

was m want to be a joke suggesting that in fact a lot of people can get it for the same price as an OSX update.

nightmare99 · 11 Sep 2011 at 10:30

Also I see this being effective with laptops with quick BIOS POST times - not so effective with desktop motherboards that take an eon to POST.

I believe this is still being worked on by Intel/AMI/Award etc, I think the oproms all need to be coded to native UEFI which I do not believe they are at the moment.

Temi_D · 13 Sep 2011 at 17:35

I love the new task manager! http://www.engadget.com/photos/windows-8-developer-preview-screenshots/#4438399

Alasdairhurst · 13 Sep 2011 at 18:03

conference on atm guys:
http://www.buildwindows.com/

nightmare99 · 13 Sep 2011 at 19:22

I hope all the poeple that said they had hardly added any new features feel pretty stupid now

Did I hear the end bit right that anybody can download the developer preview tonight?

Alasdairhurst · 13 Sep 2011 at 19:26

yup- well tomorrow morning at 3AM

MR.B · 13 Sep 2011 at 19:27

nightmare99 said:
Did I hear the end bit right that anybody can download the developer preview tonight?

They definitely said people can download it tonight (well 3AM). It will be on torrents in no time anyway. And no activation!

Soooo much new stuff here from the Build conference. It's going to take ages to update my original post with all this stuff..... biggest Windows update/changes EVER, by miles.

Also Anandtech has a new article about a lot of this stuff.

Chaos · 13 Sep 2011 at 19:43

Get the magnifying glass out

Meatball · 13 Sep 2011 at 20:48

The Windows Store sounds a bit disappointing. I was hoping it would end up as a gateway for all WIN32 and Metro apps and then alert you when updates are available and auto-update (if you wish.) Atm it only sells Metro apps and merley links to WIN32 apps. My current bug bare with Windows is having to open each program to run checks for updates. It would be so convenient to have one home for all applications and update them all at once. Imagine having a sub driver store. No more going to manufacturers websites for drivers, all drivers are stored in one central location and updates dished out automatically! When you first install Windows 8 it scans you hardware, and goes to the Windows 8 driver store and grabs the latest versions

.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 13 Sep 2011 at 20:52

The Metro UI for desktops looks horrible:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4771/microsoft-build-windows-8-pre-beta-preview/9

"Overall Windows 8 is extremely jarring right now from a desktop user perspective. Metro is the Windows shell, no ifs ands or butts. Metro applications can only be accessed through the Metro shell (i.e. the Start Screen), and the Metro shell is always what the tablet will boot up into. Explorer as we know it is the Metro shell – if you kill it, you kill Metro shell with it – so at this time it’s not possible to boot up into the traditional Windows desktop. Even if you could, the Start Menu is gone, replaced with Metro charms."

"While we’ve only had a short period of time work play with Windows 8 with a mouse and keyboard, at this point in time there’s not a lot to say that’s positive. Metro works well as a tablet interface, but with a mouse and keyboard it’s like using a tablet with a mouse and keyboard. Hopefully Microsoft will have a more suitable mouse & keyboard control scheme ready to go for Windows 8 farther down the line."

Dewotter · 13 Sep 2011 at 21:00

They better have the old desktop available properly because that Metro is a hash on a big monitor. Seeing a bunch of tiles is just clutter imo.

MR.B · 13 Sep 2011 at 21:03

Meatball said:
The Windows Store sounds a bit disappointing. I was hoping it would end up as a gateway for all WIN32 and Metro apps

It makes sense though because it's looking like MS want to eventually get rid of the ageing Win32. Only Metro/WinRT apps will be on the MS store in order to entice developers to use WinRT now (WinRT is what Metro apps will use, and it will somewhat replace Win32, eventually it could completely replace it). Another thing to entice devs to use WinRT is that the apps made with it will work on ARM CPU's too, along with AMD and Intel, both 32 and 64-bit.

Leeroy123 · 13 Sep 2011 at 21:16

Amp34 said:
meh, you got ripped off! I paid £35 for mine...

You got ripped off, mine was free. !!

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 13 Sep 2011 at 21:26

It gets better:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2011/09/build-2011-the-two-worlds-of-w.php

"The Taskbar retains its place on the Win8 Desktop with only slightly cosmetic differences over Win7. But the Start Button (by default, on the lower left side) no longer brings up the Start Menu. Instead, it switches back to the Start Screen and the Metro staging area. The Windows button on the keyboard (pressed by itself) and the Windows button on tablet screens perform the same function; when you're at the Start Screen, both bring back the Desktop

NathanE · 13 Sep 2011 at 21:33

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The Metro UI for desktops looks horrible:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4771/microsoft-build-windows-8-pre-beta-preview/9

"Overall Windows 8 is extremely jarring right now from a desktop user perspective. Metro is the Windows shell, no ifs ands or butts. Metro applications can only be accessed through the Metro shell (i.e. the Start Screen), and the Metro shell is always what the tablet will boot up into. Explorer as we know it is the Metro shell – if you kill it, you kill Metro shell with it – so at this time it’s not possible to boot up into the traditional Windows desktop. Even if you could, the Start Menu is gone, replaced with Metro charms."

"While we’ve only had a short period of time work play with Windows 8 with a mouse and keyboard, at this point in time there’s not a lot to say that’s positive. Metro works well as a tablet interface, but with a mouse and keyboard it’s like using a tablet with a mouse and keyboard. Hopefully Microsoft will have a more suitable mouse & keyboard control scheme ready to go for Windows 8 farther down the line."

And so the FUD begins... and from Anandtech, of all places. Didn't take long.

NathanE · 13 Sep 2011 at 21:43

MR.B said:
It makes sense though because it's looking like MS want to eventually get rid of the ageing Win32. Only Metro/WinRT apps will be on the MS store in order to entice developers to use WinRT now (WinRT is what Metro apps will use, and it will somewhat replace Win32, eventually it could completely replace it). Another thing to entice devs to use WinRT is that the apps made with it will work on ARM CPU's too, along with AMD and Intel, both 32 and 64-bit.

WinRT reminds me of the original intention of WinFX from the Longhorn era.

There is an old saying in computer science: If at first something doesn't seem possible, add another level of abstraction.

That's all that WinRT is. A necessary abstraction layer that wraps up the ageing Win32 API (along with all its non-OO, endianness, word length... issues) into a nice reusable OO C++ API that is agnostic of both platform/CPU/architecture but also the programming language that is calling it.

WinRT is clearly something that has been in development for many years. Even before Windows 7. All that "MinWin" stuff from a couple years back? Yep. That was the groundwork that was blatantly leading in the direction of WinRT.

I can't see the HTML5/JS offering being taken seriously by seasoned Windows developers. That is clearly the offering to attract the hobbyists, web devs etc to write for Windows. .NET is not going anywhere. As soon as the WinRT libraries for .NET are ready, it will become the preferred development platform for Metro apps.

The new "appx" packaging format is blatantly going to support any type of program and expose it to the user in a consistent way. So whether you wrote your app in HTML5/JS, .NET or C++... once packaged up as a ".appx" the user won't know or care about how the program was written. Hopefully it herald a new generation of Windows Installer technology whereby dependencies/prereqs etc are automatically resolved (i.e. package management, Debian style).

Amp34 · 13 Sep 2011 at 21:44

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It gets better:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2011/09/build-2011-the-two-worlds-of-w.php

"The Taskbar retains its place on the Win8 Desktop with only slightly cosmetic differences over Win7. But the Start Button (by default, on the lower left side) no longer brings up the Start Menu. Instead, it switches back to the Start Screen and the Metro staging area. The Windows button on the keyboard (pressed by itself) and the Windows button on tablet screens perform the same function; when you're at the Start Screen, both bring back the Desktop

On a tablet...