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Castiel said:
In fact Matt has a male falsetto voice which means he definitely has raw talent. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to this fact.
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You've got opinions on everything. Even on subjects you know shaft all about.

Having a male falsetto is not a talent. Every human on the planet has the ability to sing a falsetto. The difference is where on the piano scale the falsetto starts due to each persons natural tessitura.

Having a well-developed falsetto, such as Jake Shiers, can be seen as a talent. Certainly, singers are popularly judged on their high notes and high singing seems to be considered of more merit than lower-register singing. For example, Tenors are the stars of opera, baritones are the supporting parts.

Some people consider falsetto singing to be a cop-out. Take Leona Lewis, and her cover of Snow Patrol's "Run". Every line has a very annoying flip to falsetto (it is a well-developed falsetto, mind) and the high full-voice parts (head voice) seem ragged and strained. To my ear, the more talented singer is not the one who can flip an octave in falsetto, it is the singer who can remain in octave in their full head voice.

Chris Martin of Coldplay is another. When he's in falsetto he's in his element. When he drops out of it sounds like nails on a blackboard.

Now, unless you mean a male soprano, then you're talking a whole different ball game. They've either got no knackers, or their voice box managed to escape puberty.
 
ElvisFan said:
You've got opinions on everything. Even on subjects you know shaft all about.

Having a male falsetto is not a talent. Every human on the planet has the ability to sing a falsetto. The difference is where on the piano scale the falsetto starts due to each persons natural tessitura.

Having a well-developed falsetto, such as Jake Shiers, can be seen as a talent. Certainly, singers are popularly judged on their high notes and high singing seems to be considered of more merit than lower-register singing. For example, Tenors are the stars of opera, baritones are the supporting parts.

Some people consider falsetto singing to be a cop-out. Take Leona Lewis, and her cover of Snow Patrol's "Run". Every line has a very annoying flip to falsetto (it is a well-developed falsetto, mind) and the high full-voice parts (head voice) seem ragged and strained. To my ear, the more talented singer is not the one who can flip an octave in falsetto, it is the singer who can remain in octave in their full head voice.

Chris Martin of Coldplay is another. When he's in falsetto he's in his element. When he drops out of it sounds like nails on a blackboard.

Now, unless you mean a male soprano, then you're talking a whole different ball game. They've either got no knackers, or their voice box managed to escape puberty.
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I see so everyone can sing like Matt, sure they can. He has a talent which enables him to sing in that register without losing pitch as most of us would. I understand that he had training to open up his voice and increased his vocal range.
 
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ElvisFan said:
Having a male falsetto is not a talent. Every human on the planet has the ability to sing a falsetto. The difference is where on the piano scale the falsetto starts due to each persons natural tessitura.
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And added to that I'm doing Boston's More Than A Feeling at the moment which is a notoriously hard song to do properly.
I can hit it perfectly using falsetto but I want to hit it with a proper voice which is virtually impossible unless you're Brad Delph.
Singing falsetto is not a great talent but a copout.
In the late 80s I was in a successful cabaret 4 piece harmony band and we used to fight over the falsetto harmony so we could have a rest.
 
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dmpoole said:
And added to that I'm doing Boston's More Than A Feeling at the moment which is a notoriously hard song to do properly.
I can hit it perfectly using falsetto but I want to hit it with a proper voice which is virtually impossible unless you're Brad Delph.
Singing falsetto is not a great talent but a copout.
In the late 80s I was in a successful cabaret 4 piece harmony band and we used to fight over the falsetto harmony so we could have a rest.
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How do you know whether you are singing with the falsetto or modal voice though, whenever I sing in a high register I find it harder (more tiring) than my normal singing voice. (I'm in a band that does mainly A-ha covers and they are notoriously difficult)
 
Castiel said:
I see so everyone can sing like Matt, sure they can. He has a talent which enables him to sing in that register without losing pitch as most of us would. I understand that he had training to open up his voice and increased his vocal range.

So you can take you snobbish holier than thou attitude and shove it.;)
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Anybody can pay for singing lessons. It even worked for me. When working through scales, increasing in pitch with each 13-note legato, there is eventually a flip to falsetto to facilitate completing the scale on-pitch. The skill lies in mastering the full-voice exercises so that the point at which the flip to falsetto occurs eventually gets higher and higher, meaning higher notes can be performed in the full head voice and not the easier to attain falsetto.

Falsetto, by it's very nature is a cop-out. It is not the true voice. Americans describe it as using the false.

As for snobbish and holier than thou, well, that's rich.
 
Castiel said:
How do you know whether you are singing with the falsetto or modal voice though, whenever I sing in a high register I find it harder (more tiring) than my normal singing voice. (I'm in a band that does mainly A-ha covers and they are notoriously difficult)
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Perhaps because since 1970 I have gone out every week singing in pubs & clubs for a second living and absolutely nothing comes close to wrecking your voice than doing ACDC or Led Zeppelin covers.
During some of those songs I will go into falsetto which amazes the hell out of people but is actually quite easy.
The easiest song of the night is the one that gets the most questions and is called Gypsy Road by Cinderella.
I call it my Orville The Duck song because it's a full rock on falsetto but it gives me a rest.

BTW, how many times can you sing take On Me in one evening :)
 
Castiel said:
How do you know whether you are singing with the falsetto or modal voice though, whenever I sing in a high register I find it harder (more tiring) than my normal singing voice. (I'm in a band that does mainly A-ha covers and they are notoriously difficult)
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Of course singing higher is more difficult, you're making your vocal folds vibrate at a higher frequency. That takes a lot of physical control.

Here's a test for you:

1) Try singing "Dont Stop Believing" by Journey.

2) Sing "Don't Leave Me This Way" by Jimmy Somerville.

(2) will be easier as that is falsetto.
 
dmpoole said:
Perhaps because since 1970 I have gone out every week singing in pubs & clubs for a second living and absolutely nothing comes close to wrecking your voice than doing ACDC or Led Zeppelin covers.
During some of those songs I will go into falsetto which amazes the hell out of people but is actually quite easy.
The easiest song of the night is the one that gets the most questions and is called Gypsy Road by Cinderella.
I call it my Orville The Duck song because it's a full rock on falsetto but it gives me a rest.

BTW, how many times can you sing take On Me in one evening :)
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I see, When I sing Take on Me for example, I find it more difficult at the higher range and not easier, this is what is confusing me.

Normally just the once for Take on Me, we do other stuff as well, mainly 80's & 90s covers, a bit of Coldplay and James Blunt depending on the venue. I belong to a rock band also where we do mainly nu-metal. (not covers though)

ElvisFan said:
Anybody can pay for singing lessons. It even worked for me. When working through scales, increasing in pitch with each 13-note legato, there is eventually a flip to falsetto to facilitate completing the scale on-pitch. The skill lies in mastering the full-voice exercises so that the point at which the flip to falsetto occurs eventually gets higher and higher, meaning higher notes can be performed in the full head voice and not the easier to attain falsetto.

Falsetto, by it's very nature is a cop-out. It is not the true voice. Americans describe it as using the false.
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I see, I think I know what you mean now, going back to the Take on Me song mentioned earlier, the highest note I find easier strangely and I suppose that is why?



ElvisFan said:
As for snobbish and holier than thou, well, that's rich.
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I agree, hence my belated deletion. Apologies.:)

ElvisFan said:
Of course singing higher is more difficult, you're making your vocal folds vibrate at a higher frequency. That takes a lot of physical control.

Here's a test for you:

1) Try singing "Dont Stop Believing" by Journey.

2) Sing "Don't Leave Me This Way" by Jimmy Somerville.

(2) will be easier as that is falsetto.
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I'll give it a go.:)
 
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dmpoole said:
Not really - posters think Matt Cardle is some amazing singer but he's putting no effort in.
He'll never get nodes on his vocal chords.
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Not for you maybe, but I had no idea what you were on about and now I have a bit more knowledge :)
 
dmpoole said:
Not really - posters think Matt Cardle is some amazing singer but he's putting no effort in.
He'll never get nodes on his vocal chords.
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I still maintain he is a talented singer and that Talent has little to do with whether you like him or not. Just think what he could do if he put some effort in (although I'm not convinced he isn't).
 
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I think Matt is talented. For me he is the best singer in the competition.

I still believe that he will vanish without a trace and go the same way as Brookstein or Leon Jackson. He just isn't marketable in the same way as Cher Lloyd is.

In order to be successful in the entertainment industry you have to be able to create a buzz around you. Your own talent/ability isn't as important as the ability to create the buzz. Look at Katie Price. Look at Paris Hilton. Even Katie Weasel has this ability. Lady Gaga is probably the best in the business at creating a buzz and you only have to look at her record sales to see that her strategy is working.
 
Cher won't be marketable for long imo. She has nothing going for her:

Can't sing
Rapping sounds odd
Can't dance
Fugly.
 
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As if any of you wouldn't shag Cher Lloyd given the opportunity.

(Not that I watch X Factor ;) )
 
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