There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life

ethan · 21 Oct 2008 at 18:51

RDM said:
Obviously the same rules should also apply to religions then?

Absolutely and not all religious believers try to pass their beliefs off as scientific fact either.

RDM · 21 Oct 2008 at 18:53

Raikiri said:
Yep, come to our church... you might be saving your soul from eternal damnation, well maybe... we have cake.

Sorry can't, already pretending to be Catholic for school purposes. Cake sounds good though!

ethan said:
Absolutely and not all religious believers try to pass their beliefs off as scientific fact either.

The main religions in this country do tend to present themselves as the truth though and I don't think I have ever heard a clergyman ever say "in my opinion" at the end of a sermon. Neither have I ever seen "Jesus Saves (in my opinion)" on church advertising. Guess they aren't following your rules either...

ethan · 21 Oct 2008 at 18:59

I'd rather expect them to argue them as personal truths. They might even be a factual insofar as somebody turning to religion through despair or any other difficulty could claim their belief in Jesus might have saved their life. Its all due to context though.It is the way it is perceived that is the problem- exactly like the comment God probably doesn't exist. Anyway, if its probable its by no means certain and that still remains the point.

Dolph · 21 Oct 2008 at 18:59

Tibbs said:
2nd. But I also like the fact it's not being done in a violent way.
I think it's idiotic the way that some people go on about their religion (imo).

Oh the irony in that statement...

I don't have a single problem with people believing in something as it's their choice. I just don't like the idea that when atheists want to show the same sort of opinions, we get slated.
I used to work in a care home and when the church used to come in I would leave the room as it wasn't my place to be. I did it without any disrespect and yet, when asked, I got slated for saying I was a non-believer.

Should be the same for both sides.

I agree, but I have to say I've met a far greater number of 'aggressive' atheists than I have any other belief.

Conscript · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:10

Dolph said:
Oh the irony in that statement...

I agree, but I have to say I've met a far greater number of 'aggressive' atheists than I have any other belief.

But are these aggressive atheists actually aggressive or just vocal in their views on God? Whilst I understand the irony of atheists preaching about there being no God, I've also enver heard of atheists using violence in the way I've seen some relgious believers use it.

Dolph · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:14

Conscript said:
But are these aggressive atheists actually aggressive or just vocal in their views on God? Whilst I understand the irony of atheists preaching about there being no God, I've also enver heard of atheists using violence in the way I've seen some relgious believers use it.

In terms of people trying to tell me what to think (as opposed to what they think), the atheists are much worse. Furthermore they are the ones more likely to get aggressive when you challenge their beliefs or question their logic (especially surrouding use of the scientific method and assumptions).

Atheists are just as bad, if not worse, for demanding you join them or you'll be insulted and abused IME.

Conscript · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:22

Dolph said:
In terms of people trying to tell me what to think (as opposed to what they think), the atheists are much worse. Furthermore they are the ones more likely to get aggressive when you challenge their beliefs or question their logic (especially surrouding use of the scientific method and assumptions).

Atheists are just as bad, if not worse, for demanding you join them or you'll be insulted and abused IME.

But that's just a hardline segment of atheists, fundamentalists if you will. And while they may insult your belief and demand you change you're views (Which is wrong, I completely agree), I don't agree that they are worse than the fundamentalist sectors of other belief's who, for instance, threaten and attack abortion doctors/clinics because it's a practice which goes against their religious belief. Or claim that homsexuality is an abmoniation and that homosexuals should burn in hell. Or turn themselves into human bombs whilst waging Jihad against seemingly innocent people.

I guess my point is that while I agree with you that some athiests can be arrogant and insulting and hypcritical in their approach to debating God, when it comes to actually being fundamentally aggressive, those who believe in [insert deity here] seem to have got it pretty well sown up.

Sankari · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:25

"Even on the buses, nobody thinks twice when they see a religious slogan plastered across the side".

I've never even seen one plastered on the side of a bus. And if I did, I'd think "What the hell is that doing there?"

Where are these buses, anyway? Do they only service the areas where Mr Dawkins lives? :confused:

"This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think - and thinking is anathema to religion."

Yeah, Isaac Newton would agree with that! :rolleyes:

Hanne Stinson, chief executive of the BHA, said: "We see so many posters advertising salvation through Jesus or threatening us with eternal damnation, that I feel sure that a bus advert like this will be welcomed as a breath of fresh air."

We do? Where? :confused:

I appreciate the point they're trying to make, but the straw man arguments aren't helping much. And don't they know that nobody likes to be preached at?

starfighter · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:27

I like the idea, some people don't think and simply do what they are told for some reason, giving these cretins an alternate view is good.

Dolph · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:31

Conscript said:
But that's just a hardline segment of atheists, fundamentalists if you will. And while they may insult your belief and demand you change you're views (Which is wrong, I completely agree), I don't agree that they are worse than the fundamentalist sectors of other belief's who, for instance, threaten and attack abortion doctors/clinics because it's a practice which goes against their religious belief. Or claim that homsexuality is an abmoniation and that homosexuals should burn in hell. Or turn themselves into human bombs whilst waging Jihad against seemingly innocent people.

Nor do I, but I've not met anyone like that from the religious side, which was my original context.

I guess my point is that while I agree with you that some athiests can be arrogant and insulting and hypcritical in their approach to debating God, when it comes to actually being fundamentally aggressive, those who believe in [insert deity here] seem to have got it pretty well sown up.

A very, very small proportion of those with religious belief behave in such a way, that's the key point here. In my experience your chances of meeting an aggressive atheist in day to day normal life is much higher than meeting an aggressive religious person.

I dislike aggressive people whatever belief they are trying to peddle, so it's nothing personal against the atheists that I object to their behaviour, nor is it tied in with their actual beliefs. Unfortunately, there appears to be an atheist variant of 'soul saving' going on in many places, trying to convert people with an aggressive position on faith.

gillywibble · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:36

That poster's about as pointless as the religious debates on here.

p4radox · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:40

gillywibble said:
That poster's about as pointless as the religious debates on here.

Agreed.

scorza · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:42

Conscript said:
But are these aggressive atheists actually aggressive or just vocal in their views on God? Whilst I understand the irony of atheists preaching about there being no God, I've also enver heard of atheists using violence in the way I've seen some relgious believers use it.

As the son of Vicar I've witnessed personally violent attacks against my Dad, my home and other church goers. Of course, they didn't do it in the name of atheism but they weren't Muslims and I don't think they were Catholics either.

Volcs · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:43

The poster's as pointless as religion.

Volcs · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:44

scorza said:
..they weren't Muslims and I don't think they were Catholics either.

Then they must be aggressive atheists!

scorza · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:53

Volcs said:
Then they must be aggressive atheists!

It's funny, but they were always quite happy spout the same BS as most of the posters in this thread, so yes I think it's a safe assumption they were atheists.

Conscript · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:53

Dolph said:
Nor do I, but I've not met anyone like that from the religious side, which was my original context.

A very, very small proportion of those with religious belief behave in such a way, that's the key point here. In my experience your chances of meeting an aggressive atheist in day to day normal life is much higher than meeting an aggressive religious person.

I dislike aggressive people whatever belief they are trying to peddle, so it's nothing personal against the atheists that I object to their behaviour, nor is it tied in with their actual beliefs. Unfortunately, there appears to be an atheist variant of 'soul saving' going on in many places, trying to convert people with an aggressive position on faith.

A good point and I think a lot of the aggressiveness you see in such arguments stems from an exasperation of trying to put a point across in the face of a faith based stance.

For instance, I once had a couple of gentlemen knock on my door to explain to me the virtues of God and religion. Usually I'd turn them away politely, but we got chatting about how the Bible was a propechy for human history. He put forward several arguments to me which I claimed to be untrue. He told me how the Earth ahd been created 6000 years ago for insatnce. I told him he was mistaken and that there was irrefutable evidence that the Earth was billions of years old and the universe itself, much older. He of course claimed I was wrong because the Bible said otherwise. The whole argument descended into farce because he refused to concede to any valid point I made that wasn't verifed in the book he was clutching. We parted ways amicably enough but I was left with a sense of futility that this man simply refused to take on board the evidence I used to challenge his ideas because of his faith on his religion. Which would be fair enough but when you see how much influence religion has on the world around us, I'm frankly not surprised to see people like Dawkins being incredibly vocal about an opposite view.

BigBoy · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:54

In Bath we have been running this on our buses since June. They say "If God did exist what would you ask?" promoting some Alpha course which i am told is something to do with Bath City Forum / Church (And they are a bunch of loony Faith healer types).

aslco · 21 Oct 2008 at 19:55

If this gets banned us guys better put in a second load of complaints supporting it.

Tibbs · 21 Oct 2008 at 20:01

Dolph said:
Atheists are just as bad, if not worse, for demanding you join them or you'll be insulted and abused IME.

Atheists, including myself, that I know have never pressurized others into being a non believer. Like I said earlier, I have met believers who have been very aggressive and nasty to me for just being a non-believer.
I suppose what I am trying to say is that I have found the opposite to you.
I always think that non-belivers are more relaxed and don't really care if people join them, imo.