Todays London Stabbing/Shooting

[Dis86]

That’s great that you had good parents. Sadly lots of kids don’t. So what is your solution to stop these kids going down the wrong road when they don’t get a positive role models at home or dragging them back when they do?

Well, the logical approach is to prevent those who never will be good parents from having children in the first instance. But something tells me you won't appreciate logic.
The second is for that state you hate to punish parents who fail from an early age to instill discipline in their children. At the moment should a child commit most crimes there is simply no recourse. That's wrong.

 

[stockhausen]

Well, the logical approach is to prevent those who never will be good parents from having children in the first instance. But something tells me you won't appreciate logic.
The second is for that state you hate to punish parents who fail from an early age to instill discipline in their children. At the moment should a child commit most crimes there is simply no recourse. That's wrong.

So, you are going to speculatively sterilise people based on how you "think" they will work out as parents and you want the "state" (which you despise) to punish the parents (presumably both of them?) of "children" who stab or shoot others?

What "punishment" had you in mind in your "Brave New World"?
Stabbing or shooting?

 

[mmj_uk]

That’s great that you had good parents. Sadly lots of kids don’t. So what is your solution to stop these kids going down the wrong road when they don’t get a positive role models at home or dragging them back when they do?

A retrun to promoting Christian values as a country?

Couples get to know each other better before jumping into bed and either bringing up a child in a single parent family or getting a divorce 12 months down the road.
Make divorce more difficult to promote good decisions in who they choose as a partner and make couples work harder at their relationship for the good of the children.

I mean, you don't really get this sort of thing in say the Pakistani community and it wasn't so much a problem in Britain before the push for atheism and getting our moral values from the nanny state instead. I'm not saying go back to criminalising homosexuality etc but there was a lot of good that came from the values taught by Christianity, far more good than bad. I don't think it's a coincidence that society going off the rails has basically coincided with the decline in Christianity. Also, I'm not saying everyone has to read the bible and go to church but just teach the good values that came out of it instead of ridiculing it and acting like the state will lead us to utopia, the state can't even organise Brexit.

 

[Thecaferacer]

A retrun to promoting Christian values as a country?

Couples get to know each other better before jumping into bed and either bringing up a child in a single parent family or getting a divorce 12 months down the road.
Make divorce more difficult to promote good decisions in who they choose as a partner and make couples work harder at their relationship for the good of the children.

I mean, you don't really get this sort of thing in say the Pakistani community and it wasn't so much a problem in Britain before the push for atheism and getting our moral values from the nanny state instead. I'm not saying go back to criminalising homosexuality etc but there was a lot of good that came from the values taught by Christianity, far more good than bad. I don't think it's a coincidence that society going off the rails has basically coincided with the decline in Christianity. Also, I'm not saying everyone has to read the bible and go to church but just teach the good values that came out of it instead of ridiculing it and acting like the state will lead us to utopia, the state can't even organise Brexit.

You're confusing Christianity with community. When I was living in New Zealand and Australia the one thing that struck me was the real push from above to be a good Kiwi or Aussie. Everyone was welcome as long as you fit the culture. Mind you were probably talking about pride in your national identity here which is all but banned here.

I wouldn't want to go back to 50s/60s religious tracks. Women ostracised and forced into abortions because they get up the duff at 16, women staying with their husbands despite him giving her a hiding every Friday night.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Well, the logical approach is to prevent those who never will be good parents from having children in the first instance. But something tells me you won't appreciate logic.
The second is for that state you hate to punish parents who fail from an early age to instill discipline in their children. At the moment should a child commit most crimes there is simply no recourse. That's wrong.

Right, we’re now back from the land of make believe or an extreme fascist state that only allows certain people to procreate. That is NEVER going to happen, even though I agree some people probably shouldn’t have kids it is still never going to happen. The State should never have a say on who can have children. They can obviously have a say in who can keep their children though working with the judiciary.

What makes you think I hate the State? Where have I suggested that? I think the State has an important role to play. How would you punish the parents? Let’s say you have a single parent, there are 3 kids and one is out of control. The parent is struggling to make ends meet working part time. So you can’t fine them or take benefits as that will make a bad situation worse and you can’t jail them or it’s 3 kids in care, parent loses home, job and chances are the out of control kid is just as bad if not worse and the other 2 kids are now in the care system which isn’t a great place to be. Parent comes out of jail with no home or job. How is the situation improved?

 

[Dis86]

So, you are going to speculatively sterilise people based on how you "think" they will work out as parents and you want the "state" (which you despise) to punish the parents (presumably both of them?) of "children" who stab or shoot others?

What "punishment" had you in mind in your "Brave New World"?
Stabbing or shooting?

You're not very good at reading, are you? I didn't say I'm going to do anything. Also not sure where you got corporal punishment/execution from. You're a strange little man, aren't you?

 

[Dis86]

Right, we’re now back from the land of make believe or an extreme fascist state that only allows certain people to procreate. That is NEVER going to happen, even though I agree some people probably shouldn’t have kids it is still never going to happen. The State should never have a say on who can have children. They can obviously have a say in who can keep their children though working with the judiciary.

What makes you think I hate the State? Where have I suggested that? I think the State has an important role to play. How would you punish the parents? Let’s say you have a single parent, there are 3 kids and one is out of control. The parent is struggling to make ends meet working part time. So you can’t fine them or take benefits as that will make a bad situation worse and you can’t jail them or it’s 3 kids in care, parent loses home, job and chances are the out of control kid is just as bad if not worse and the other 2 kids are now in the care system which isn’t a great place to be. Parent comes out of jail with no home or job. How is the situation improved?

So you agree that some people shouldn't have kids but your response is "it's still never going to happen". Why? Why isn't it going to happen? We have families where generation after generation are nothing but criminals. Cut it off at the bud. Do society a favour for a change. Why should we, as a society, have to put up with the persistent criminal element? Let's face it, we're already overpopulated and using excessive resource, anything to kerb this is a benefit for not only humanity but life on the planet as a whole.

China had a single child policy - perhaps it's time we implemented something similar - at least until people show that they can control one child? I've given the example on here before of a mother to several children at my partners school. She has had 7 children taken off her and in to care. She keeps popping them out and they keep getting taken off her. She's pregnant again. Give me one good reason why this should be allowed and why society wouldn't be better served by having her tubes tied. We're already paying to look after 7 of her kids who, thanks to her, have had an atrocious start in life.

As for your example, I've rarely encountered a situation where one out of several children is the only issue. However, my proposal would be in a situation where money is unavailable for reparations - time allowing - that said parent performs unpaid work for the community or they agree that their child is criminally responsible in which case the child faces criminal charges and the correct punishment.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

A retrun to promoting Christian values as a country?

Couples get to know each other better before jumping into bed and either bringing up a child in a single parent family or getting a divorce 12 months down the road.
Make divorce more difficult to promote good decisions in who they choose as a partner and make couples work harder at their relationship for the good of the children.

I mean, you don't really get this sort of thing in say the Pakistani community and it wasn't so much a problem in Britain before the push for atheism and getting our moral values from the nanny state instead. I'm not saying go back to criminalising homosexuality etc but there was a lot of good that came from the values taught by Christianity, far more good than bad. I don't think it's a coincidence that society going off the rails has basically coincided with the decline in Christianity. Also, I'm not saying everyone has to read the bible and go to church but just teach the good values that came out of it instead of ridiculing it and acting like the state will lead us to utopia, the state can't even organise Brexit.

Christianity is the answer. Nah no thanks. This is 2019 not 1920. I don’t think blaming atheists for the woes of society is based on anything other than your opinion. I know lots of atheists, I’m an atheist and I think I/we have a very good moral compass. I donate to several charities a month and will always stop to help someone out if I can.

No you don’t “get this sort of thing in Pakistan” you get honour killings and acid attacks instead. Oh how much better things would be here with honour killings. Wife leaves a husband, taking kids with her because he’s a violent drunk.. no worries a quick honour killing, problem solved. Girl gets pregnant out of wedlock even if raped. An honour killing takes care of that!

Have you read the bible? I could quote truly heinous verses from the bible. A “saviour” that had no issue with slavery, beating said slaves. No issue with rape, even encourages it. No empowerment of women, they should know their place and be beaten as a reminder. I’d say 21st century UK isn’t really your cup of tea if you fancy that way of life. The Bible Belt though you’d fit right in.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

All religion is bum gravy. Prove me wrong.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

So you agree that some people shouldn't have kids but your response is "it's still never going to happen". Why? Why isn't it going to happen? We have families where generation after generation are nothing but criminals. Cut it off at the bud. Do society a favour for a change. Why should we, as a society, have to put up with the persistent criminal element? Let's face it, we're already overpopulated and using excessive resource, anything to kerb this is a benefit for not only humanity but life on the planet as a whole.

China had a single child policy - perhaps it's time we implemented something similar - at least until people show that they can control one child? I've given the example on here before of a mother to several children at my partners school. She has had 7 children taken off her and in to care. She keeps popping them out and they keep getting taken off her. She's pregnant again. Give me one good reason why this should be allowed and why society wouldn't be better served by having her tubes tied. We're already paying to look after 7 of her kids who, thanks to her, have had an atrocious start in life.

As for your example, I've rarely encountered a situation where one out of several children is the only issue. However, my proposal would be in a situation where money is unavailable for reparations - time allowing - that said parent performs unpaid work for the community or they agree that their child is criminally responsible in which case the child faces criminal charges and the correct punishment.

First Pakistan gets mentioned and now China. Those beacons of society. You are happy for the State to force women to have abortions, then be sterilised along with any men not deemed fit? Have you any idea of what you are advocating. Acts like this aren’t committed by liberal democracies, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[enkoda]

A retrun to promoting Christian values as a country?

Couples get to know each other better before jumping into bed and either bringing up a child in a single parent family or getting a divorce 12 months down the road.
Make divorce more difficult to promote good decisions in who they choose as a partner and make couples work harder at their relationship for the good of the children.

I mean, you don't really get this sort of thing in say the Pakistani community and it wasn't so much a problem in Britain before the push for atheism and getting our moral values from the nanny state instead. I'm not saying go back to criminalising homosexuality etc but there was a lot of good that came from the values taught by Christianity, far more good than bad. I don't think it's a coincidence that society going off the rails has basically coincided with the decline in Christianity. Also, I'm not saying everyone has to read the bible and go to church but just teach the good values that came out of it instead of ridiculing it and acting like the state will lead us to utopia, the state can't even organise Brexit.

The good values in the Bible were being followed by societies long before Christianity hijacked them.

If something is ridiculous then it can be ridiculed.

 

[jonneymendoza]

First Pakistan gets mentioned and now China. Those beacons of society. You are happy for the State to force women to have abortions, then be sterilised along with any men not deemed fit? Have you any idea of what you are advocating. Acts like this aren’t committed by liberal democracies, quite the opposite in fact.

Just get rid of benefits as a whole and invest that money in education and policing

 

[jonneymendoza]

Quite right too. We don't need to do anything. Their parents should.

As like all our parents here done. Our parents here raised us and taught us right from wrong and we turned out fine

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

You're not very good at reading, are you? I didn't say I'm going to do anything. Also not sure where you got corporal punishment/execution from. You're a strange little man, aren't you?

Haha, can you imagine the drool and froth as he frantically hits reply to get his opinion in as fast as possible.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Just get rid of benefits as a whole and invest that money in education and policing

The welfare state has a lot too answer for in this situation, its systemic (among other things), cap it at one child, lifetime claimants should not be having 4 children who go on to repeat the cycle.

I don't honestly believe anyone is truly happy for people to have such huge families that between them will never contribute anything to society (even the outright left crazies), purely financed by those of us whom work hard, pay into the system and control our own children.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

Our courts do have the power to enforce sterilisation under certain circumstances. Just mentioning as I don’t think some posters realise.

 

[Dis86]

First Pakistan gets mentioned and now China. Those beacons of society. You are happy for the State to force women to have abortions, then be sterilised along with any men not deemed fit? Have you any idea of what you are advocating. Acts like this aren’t committed by liberal democracies, quite the opposite in fact.

And liberal democracies shouldn't need to tolerate those who live outside the accepted rules of society. If they wish to behave like animals, treat them like animals. Or do you advocate people pumping out children they can't raise to burden not only society, but the planet and those children? Are you basically condoning punishment for all instead of punishment for the few?

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Our courts do have the power to enforce sterilisation under certain circumstances. Just mentioning as I don’t think some posters realise.

Yes but those cases are extremely rare. What people on here are advocating is not that at all.

Just get rid of benefits as a whole and invest that money in education and policing

Yeah back to the work house with you lot. Oh and those old people, they can just die in poverty. Pfft social security, who needs that anyway.

 

[vanillaface]

Christianity is the answer. Nah no thanks. This is 2019 not 1920.

It's the current year!
You should consider that the advancement of time does not necessarily negate values held in the past.
It is possible for values to degenerate over time, as it is possible for them to gain value.

I don’t think blaming atheists for the woes of society is based on anything other than your opinion. I know lots of atheists, I’m an atheist and I think I/we have a very good moral compass. I donate to several charities a month and will always stop to help someone out if I can.

Jimmy Savile raised a lot of money for charity. Would you say that he was a good man?
The "goodness" of a person does not depend on the good things they do; it is more about the absence of badness.

About atheism: that a person rejects belief in god does not mean that he has not replaced that blind belief in god with blind belief in something else.
There are many atheists who believe in socialism/ communism, which are religious beliefs in their own right. There are many atheists who blindly believe in the benevolence of the EU, when the EU is not benevolent by any objective measure.
That the decline in belief in Christianity coincided with an increase in belief in the State, as not a coincidence.
People are as religious now as they were before. They merely replaced their belief in a bearded man in the sky with belief in authority.
The difference is that society declines in quality as belief in the State increases.

I'm not having a go at you; I just noticed a couple of errors and "somewhere, someone on the internet was being wrong about something"

 

[jonneymendoza]

Yes but those cases are extremely rare. What people on here are advocating is not that at all.



Yeah back to the work house with you lot. Oh and those old people, they can just die in poverty. Pfft social security, who needs that anyway.

Yea let the old people die. it wll help with balancing the population hehe. They should have a pension though, not be on benefits!

Anyways its the 20-50 year olds that should not be allowed benefits. scrap it all and invest in youth and crime and education and nHS!