Todays London Stabbing/Shooting

Thecaferacer said:
Stop and search was used extensively to the point certain areas you had a 100% chance of being stopped by police. Mandatory prison sentences and length of sentences were tripled. Gangs and members were mapped and the information made public so there were no claiming ignorance or protection once you were caught.

After sentence there was a lot of intensive work to extricate gang members out of the culture and those who wanted them back in the gangs. Scotland was very different to London though, it didn't have the whole aspirational element to it in being a gang member that comes with teh music, media, women and money that London does.
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This is a very simplistic summary, Akala makes a much more coherent and comprehensive summary of the policies they enacted in the video posted above.
 
Thecaferacer said:
You mean me saying what Scotland did is too simplistic?
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No, that you over simplified the causes and steps taken to fix the situation.

You focused on stop and search and jail terms, the more negative aspects and focusing on punishment.

There were a whole host of other measures that tried to prevent the descent into a criminal life, rather than just punishing those that already had. Prevention is better than a cure, it's an old saying and never more appropriate than when talking about these issues.
 
wesimmo said:
No, that you over simplified the causes and steps taken to fix the situation.

You focused on stop and search and jail terms, the more negative aspects and focusing on punishment.

There were a whole host of other measures that tried to prevent the descent into a criminal life, rather than just punishing those that already had. Prevention is better than a cure, it's an old saying and never more appropriate than when talking about these issues.
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To clarify and save time reading a load of waffle by many posters, why don't you list that "whole host of other measures that tried to prevent the descent into a criminal life"?
 
wesimmo said:
No, that you over simplified the causes and steps taken to fix the situation.

You focused on stop and search and jail terms, the more negative aspects and focusing on punishment.

There were a whole host of other measures that tried to prevent the descent into a criminal life, rather than just punishing those that already had. Prevention is better than a cure, it's an old saying and never more appropriate than when talking about these issues.
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Well one thing they did was to increase alcohol pricing as 80% of knife crime was alcohol related. Would that transfer to London?

They also brought in a concerted effort to introduce positive role models by bringing in ex-service men to run leadership and confidence courses at school level as well as inputs on the physical gore of knife injuries.

There is no point going on too much about post conviction intervention as that's tailor made to the individual needs.

If you think what Scotland did could translate to London, great. However the backbone of the scheme was increased police intervention (since you are dealing with a problem that's already in full swing, not developing) which has already been criticised in England.
 
Roar87 said:
There was a cultural problem in Glasgow, there's now a cultural problem within the Black community in London. It is not the colour of their skin that is causing the issue quite obviously, it's a cultural problem within their community. It is massively disproportionately affecting the Black community in London at present, there's not some equivalent problem affecting White people of a similar socioeconomic standpoint.
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So knife crime in London is carried out by ethnic minorities to 67%. Outside of London that reverses and only 36% are ethnic minorities.

Obviously some of the very poorest areas in London are inhabited by black and ethnic minorities. Outside London the poorest areas are predominantly white.

To stop this crime wave the MET need another 20,000 full time officers, a good proportion of those trained in gang culture and how to break up said gangs. Just as we are seeing with scooter gangs, the police are not making hard contact with them while they are riding, helmet or not. They had believed they were above the law, finally the Gov and police have reacted and shown otherwise. The same need to happen with gangs but jail should not be the default option

Also give these kids an alternative. There is very little for them to do. Spend some money on areas and activities for teenagers.

Finally I personally would legalise all drugs. Remove it from the criminal gangs, you remove their income. Yeah it would be controversial but the war on drugs was lost 35 years ago. Sell it through licensed shops to over 18s, the purity can be monitored and prices controlled. Pour the money back into treatment and education. You also save a fortune in policing so they can get back to catching burglars, thieves, assaults and sex attackers.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Finally I personally would legalise all drugs. Remove it from the criminal gangs, you remove their income. Yeah it would be controversial but the war on drugs was lost 35 years ago. Sell it through licensed shops to over 18s, the purity can be monitored and prices controlled. Pour the money back into treatment and education. You also save a fortune in policing so they can get back to catching burglars, thieves, assaults and sex attackers.
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It would solve so many issues.

Maybe not legalise things like Heroin, but decriminalise it like Portugal did.
 
Filming it is also evidence that can be used i think, so it's not entirely awful, it's pretty much a witness testimony without a faulty recollection.
 
Efour said:
Yes because 30 seconds to call the police would result in them magically teleporting to the scene and disarming the dude.....
Reality check...
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Assuming it was kicking off before the clip starts, the police got to the London bridge attack within 8mins so it's not entirely impossible. Highly unlikely yes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
 
Meh we are both Londoners i think we both know the difference between the seriousness of London Bridge and some **** with a shotgun on a council estate in "where ever that was." Southwark police station is probably as you say, 8 mins drive. I don't know if they have armed officers, or if they still have unmarked police cars on standby with shooty police ready to respond. Was their transport police on the scene?

My dad was a station manager on the tube and he was told if they ever had a situation that needed an armed response it should be available within 15 mins.. Now that was the London Suburbs, so 15 mins is a pretty small radius, so where ever they were based it must have been fairly close. And to cover london in 15 min radi, that's an awful lot of armed cops.

Yeah maybe its worth a try but id suspect the first police on the scene would just be target practice.... Would they even be allowed to go to that kind of crime scene "unarmed"
 
My understanding is that they have small groups of armed police in vans at strategic locations ready to go at a moments notice,

Last year some maniac was running around on Hackney road, we could hear him screaming and shouting at people, he tore his shirt off and had a pretty big knife - my partner called the cops and they were there in under 2 minutes, guys with handguns pointed at him and he was tazed, was pretty amazing seeing how quickly they turned up and dealt with him.
 
Screeeech said:
My understanding is that they have small groups of armed police in vans at strategic locations ready to go at a moments notice,

Last year some maniac was running around on Hackney road, we could hear him screaming and shouting at people, he tore his shirt off and had a pretty big knife - my partner called the cops and they were there in under 2 minutes, guys with handguns pointed at him and he was tazed, was pretty amazing seeing how quickly they turned up and dealt with him.
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It makes sense. There must be a few hundred ready to go across the capital... Which id rather have than all armed police.
 
Screeeech said:
My understanding is that they have small groups of armed police in vans at strategic locations ready to go at a moments notice,
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I think they're usually in cars, three police officers in each vehicle. The City of London police seems to have a bunch of BMW M5s for their ARVs.

Have seen them attend a medical incident and also attend some guy kicking off in a restaurant, probably in both cases because they were the closest. In each case they were just armed with pistols and tasers, IIRC they have submachine guns or carbines in locked compartments in the vehicles too if needed.
 
Yeah from what I can remember they were in cars, and had tasers / pistols, so sounds like it was probably those guys who turned up, seemed pretty effective to be fair.
 
Efour said:
Yes because 30 seconds to call the police would result in them magically teleporting to the scene and disarming the dude.....
Reality check...
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And for all we know their could have been a squad car near by that would have got there...

But sure let's just film some armed thugs, moan about, cry out 'something needs to be done' but then do absolutely nothing about it and then even make excuses for such a lack of inaction.

Pretty much proves my point that society as a whole has created this mess.
 
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