Today's mass shooting in the US

VincentHanna said:
Exactly - I can buy a gun privately, with no background check at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
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presumably this also makes banning bumpstocks ( and extended magazines if they ever go there...the dayton shooter had a drum mag, I am pretty sure you dont need them for hunting...nobody say 30-50 feral hogs please) utterly pointless as so many must be in circulation and just sold out of peoples car boots
 
Private sales make up a small % of overall gun sales, additionally I can't find anywhere that shows mass shooters use 2nd hand guns, the stats show they are legally purchased and required a federal background check. If you have anything that contradicts that I would love to see it
 
http://archive.jsonline.com/news/cr...azana-spa-slayings-b99601595z1-335806851.html

In his posting on Armslist, a classified gun sales website from Oklahoma, Haughton wrote he was "looking to buy asap" and "have ASAP now and willing to buy now. I am mobile." Haughton first tried to buy an AK-47 assault rifle, but the seller, Andy Fallon, became suspicious, according to the complaint.

Haughton then contacted Devin Linn to buy a .40-caliber handgun Linn had posted for sale. Haughton also said he needed high-capacity magazines. The pair met and made the deal in the front seat of Linn's car in a McDonald's parking lot in Germantown on Oct. 20, 2012, the day before the shooting. Haughton paid Linn $500 for the gun and magazines. Linn did not return calls for comment Thursday.

Haughton was able to buy a gun despite a Milwaukee County judge issuing a restraining order against him just three days before the shooting. The restraining order barred him under federal law from owning a firearm or buying one from a gun dealer.

Haughton sidestepped the federal law by purchasing the gun privately.

Private sellers are not required to run background checks and do not have to follow a 48-hour waiting period, required at the time of the shooting for gun dealers in Wisconsin. The waiting period was intended, in part, as a cooling-off period in domestic violence cases. That waiting period was eliminated in a bill passed by the Legislature and signed by Gov. Scott Walker over summer.
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7 years ago, and the incident was classified as a domestic homicide. Got anything more recent and that actually addresses your initial point about mass shooters? Or are you going to continually move the goalposts?
 
VincentHanna said:
Sensible? Have you seen the replies? I particularly liked this one:
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And? Whats your solution? There are so many variables that a solution is not possible, especially with todays culture of outrage and offence. The post just highlights that in a country of 400 million and the size of the US, death and violence happens everywhere and everyday. There is nothing you can do to stop these things happening, mental people will do mental acts.

I'd love to hear what your solution is.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Do you have a point?
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Oh look at that, the problem is that you don't and inventing a narrative that people in this thread are supportive of a ban is gonna require proof.

Every single time a mass murder occurs, this discussion get's reinvigorated with urgency, you know what would stop that... it isn't ignoring the problem. I wonder...
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Pointless putting Neils sensible twitter post in this thread, people will just ignore it because it makes the hyperbole these events cause seem irrelevant all whilst continuing the LOL BAN GUNS drum banging without understanding that banning guns won't stop shootings occurring, the same way banning butter knifes here has had no effect on stabbings (in fact they continue to rise despite the fact). You won't get anyone asking for personal responsibility for ones actions, its all Trumps fault obviously.
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His tweet is not comparing like for like in any way, shape or form.

There are active measures laws to monitors, track patterns and try to reduce the death counts in all those things he mentions - the NRA/GOP has actively fought every effort to even properly track the number of gun deaths in the US, let alone things like track guns in an easy manner (a "rush job" of tracking a gun's serial number usually takes days, and there is zero requirement for dealer to hand over the documentation to a central authority when they go bust).

Cars require training and a licence etc, medical practictioners require training and a licence (and insurance for when they get things wrong).

All of the things he mentions are things that the government regulates and tries to reduce the death count from, except guns.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Well do you? Whats your grand suggestion to rid the world of violence? I know you're a big advocate of thought policing so we should just lockup the entire population just incase a mentally unhinged person commits a crime?
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You can't get rid of psychopaths, but doing nothing when you have a choice at greater regulation is tantamount to complicity in the death's of people that might have been prevented had a legitimately comprehensive system been available. We know violence should be treated like a disease as it's worked elsewhere where that's been identified, do you treat a disease by ignoring it?

Tell me, do agree with the statement that Sadiq Khan made about London?
 
Werewolf said:
His tweet is not comparing like for like in any way, shape or form.

There are active measures laws to monitors, track patterns and try to reduce the death counts in all those things he mentions - the NRA/GOP has actively fought every effort to even properly track the number of gun deaths in the US, let alone things like track guns in an easy manner (a "rush job" of tracking a gun's serial number usually takes days, and there is zero requirement for dealer to hand over the documentation to a central authority when they go bust).

Cars require training and a licence etc, medical practictioners require training and a licence (and insurance for when they get things wrong).

All of the things he mentions are things that the government regulates and tries to reduce the death count from, except guns.
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All of which is irrelevant if someone decides to break the law and murder someone. Do you think the truck rampage terrorists care about training, licenses and insurance LOL? Murder is illegal, the legal system in the US is far harsher than ours, it's no deterrent at all to criminals, nor would any gun regulation be. What is so difficult to understand here? What regulation would you suggest they could implement that would have any impact at all on homicides that they haven't already. 200 odd million legal gun owners and a fraction of a percentage who break the law with them, should we ban vehicles because some people drive without a license and insurance? PC culture doesn't allow America to get a grip on homicide rates in the same way as knife crime isn't addressed in London. People want to blame the government and strip every single freedom for everyone else rather than make criminals take personal responsibility, its pathetic.

You have also ignored that the states/cities with the toughest of gun laws (hows Chicago doing?), have pretty much the highest gun crime and homicide rates, so yeah that's really working well isn't it, who would have thought that criminals don't give a toss about regulations! Idiotic.
 
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Lord-Jaffa said:
. . . "stuff" about banning guns in the USA . . .
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The idea that every citizen in the United States should have the right to keep and bear arms is as outdated as the long since repealed law that required every every male in England between the ages of ten and eighteen years old to meet on a Sunday morning on the village green in order to practice archery.

The NRA and their paid apologists in Government and the meeja should be held personally responsible for all the recent deaths resulting from mass shootings - perhaps then they will turn their minds to stopping such tragedies in the future.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
All of which is irrelevant if someone decides to break the law and murder someone. Do you think the truck rampage terrorists care about training, licenses and insurance LOL? Murder is illegal, the legal system in the US is far harsher than ours, it's no deterrent at all to criminals, nor would any gun regulation be. What is so difficult to understand here? What regulation would you suggest they could implement that would have any impact at all on homicides that they haven't already. 200 odd million legal gun owners and a fraction of a percentage who break the law with them, should we ban vehicles because some people drive without a license and insurance? PC culture doesn't allow America to get a grip on homicide rates in the same way as knife crime isn't addressed in London. People want to blame the government and strip every single freedom for everyone else rather than make criminals take personal responsibility, its pathetic.

You have also ignored that the states/cities with the toughest of gun laws (hows Chicago doing?), have pretty much the highest gun crime and homicide rates, so yeah that's really working well isn't it, who would have thought that criminals don't give a toss about regulations! Idiotic.
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Would you have the UK be like the US in terms of gun law or leave it as it is?
 
McGraw said:
Would you have the UK be like the US in terms of gun law or leave it as it is?
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When hand guns were legal in 1993 there were 75 homicides committed with guns, now we have 50-60 per year, yet knife crime has obviously gone through the roof
 
Roar87 said:
When hand guns were legal in 1993 there were 75 homicides committed with guns, now we have 50-60 per year, yet knife crime has obviously gone through the roof
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Murders, but ok. I’d much rather some have to get up close and personal to stick me than be able to take a pot shot from distance.
 
McGraw said:
Murders, but ok. I’d much rather some have to get up close and personal to stick me than be able to take a pot shot from distance.
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Knives are more lethal than something like a hand gun, if someone is up close stabbing you they'll be able to stab you in quick succession and do massive damage. If you get shot by something like a 9mm and it doesn't hit something major then you're probably able to survive and get away. Obviously this changes when you have a high powered semi automatic rifle. For comparison 10% of Police officers who get shot die, 30% who get stabbed die.
 
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