Today's mass shooting in the US

[Minstadave]

Kids are volatile and plenty of teenagers act out, hurt each other and themselves.

We don’t have school shootings because we don’t have guns. You won’t stop school shootings without taking guns away from people. People can be stupid and volatile and nothing will ever change that.

America is balls deep in gun culture and it will take generations of concerted effort to change that.

 

[teaboy5]

Again more pointless comments on OCUK about banning guns.

There is nothing wrong with owning an AR-15 etc if you use it to enjoy a sport or go hunting. But at the same time enough isn't done in the states to ensure people with mental health issues etc don't have access to guns. For example I own guns and if i was to walk into the doctor and say I was depressed and felt like I wanted to kill myself the PSNI would be at my house the same night taking my guns away from me. This wouldn't of been because I asked them, but it would have been flagged up from the doctor.

Tighter controls on who can own guns in the states is badly needed. And something in and around the storage of firearms as well.

Also when I was at school we done plenty of drills in relation to bombs/shootings.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Someone posted a gif I saw earlier but can't find right now. Essentially the wording was people who make the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument against gun control are stupid. Preventing terrorists buying guns is controlling people, not guns, preventing mentally ill people buying guns is control on people not guns, preventing violent criminals buying guns is control on the people not the guns.

Gun control isn't primarily about the guns, but preventing the wrong people having them, yet they always go to the guns don't kill people, people do argument when people talk about gun control because they seem oblivious as to what gun control really intends to achieve.

So it's sounding like a white supremacist group is saying he's a member of their group, he bought loads of guns, he had been reported to the FBI and potentially on a list of members of this group but due to the laws no one could prevent him buying guns completely legally, no one could conduct an investigation leading to the sensible removal of all guns he's brought and due to no registry that would be currently very hard to do because they can't legally know for sure how many guns he owns.

People are are against gun control are being stupid and ignorant, they are complicit.


EDIT:- guns are actually fun, I've only ever shot air rifles maybe once or twice and 20 years ago or more but I've been to a clay pigeon shoot a dozen times maybe. Guns are as fun as any other activity, but the same way a drunk driver gets their licence removed, the same way narcotics are controlled, the same way dangerous chemicals are controlled, guns require control. If I fancied buying a shotgun I should be registered on a list and as Teaboy said, if I told my doctor I was feeling suicidal that gun should be taken away from me and I'd be fine with that.

I'm fine with people wanting guns, I'm fine with people shooting guns, same way I'm fine with people racing cars, just not in a dangerous uncontrolled manor.

 

[Rroff]

We don’t have school shootings because we don’t have guns.

Guns are actually relatively available in this country - we don't tend to have incidents like in the US because for the most part its actually properly regulated in this country (personally I think a little too much so but not by much) and in most cases you'll quickly lose your FAC and weapons if there is good reason.

IIRC there is over half a million firearm owners in the UK with an average of 2.5 guns each.

 

[Minstadave]

Again more pointless comments on OCUK about banning guns.

There is nothing wrong with owning an AR-15 etc if you use it to enjoy a sport or go hunting. But at the same time enough isn't done in the states to ensure people with mental health issues etc don't have access to guns. For example I own guns and if i was to walk into the doctor and say I was depressed and felt like I wanted to kill myself the PSNI would be at my house the same night taking my guns away from me. This wouldn't of been because I asked them, but it would have been flagged up from the doctor.

Tighter controls on who can own guns in the states is badly needed. And something in and around the storage of firearms as well.

Also when I was at school we done plenty of drills in relation to bombs/shootings.

So banning guns is bad. People who like guns should have them, but bad folks shouldn’t.

If it saves kids lives why not just get rid of them? Genuinely? Is people having fun with guns more important than kids lives?

 

[Rroff]

If it saves kids lives why not just get rid of them? Genuinely? Is people having fun with guns more important than kids lives?

For the most part, when properly regulated, it is no different to anything else - many people enjoy cars capable of stupidly fast speeds without managing to kill anyone but occasionally you get someone act out in anger with a car.

 

[adolf hamster]

So banning guns is bad. People who like guns should have them, but bad folks shouldn’t.

If it saves kids lives why not just get rid of them? Genuinely?

what he's saying is it's not what people can access legally, but how easy it is to access legally.

take machine guns in america (by which i mean proper registered transferable machine guns), due to their high price and need for extra background checks and long waiting times they're much less likely to be involved in a shooting incident compared to an ar15 you can pick up at walmart for a few hundred dollars.

it needs to be more like here, where the extra hoops that need jumped through to get hold of guns puts off the majority of casual buyers

 

[teaboy5]

Kids are volatile and plenty of teenagers act out, hurt each other and themselves.

We don’t have school shootings because we don’t have guns. You won’t stop school shootings without taking guns away from people. People can be stupid and volatile and nothing will ever change that.

America is balls deep in gun culture and it will take generations of concerted effort to change that.

We have loads of guns and in NI we can also own handguns and keep them at home, which was removed from the mainland many years ago. Do you see people shooting up schools here? Nope because to own one you have to go through a lot hoops. To own a hand guns for example you must be a member of a club for one year and attended a number of times. If you get that far the police interview the club owners and do background checks etc. If you pass you can own as many handguns as you want.

You will never stop all shootings in the states. For example if the father of a mentally unstable teenager owns guns whats to stop the teenager stealing the guns and shooting up the school? The dad did nothing wrong did he?

You could go round and round talking about this for weeks, but you know what? We live in the UK and can do dam all about it so whats the point?

 

[Rroff]

You will never stop all shootings in the states. For example if the father of a mentally unstable teenager owns guns whats to stop the teenager stealing the guns and shooting up the school? The dad did nothing wrong did he?

You can still take a lot of measures with someone with a mentally ill child, etc. in the house requiring them to keep most weapons elsewhere and strict control of any kept inside the house, etc. you can't completely stop it but in several past cases they've simply collected the guns and ammo while their parents are out with no hindrance and gone on a shooting spree.

 

[Minstadave]

what he's saying is it's not what people can access legally, but how easy it is to access legally.

take machine guns in america (by which i mean proper registered transferable machine guns), due to their high price and need for extra background checks and long waiting times they're much less likely to be involved in a shooting incident compared to an ar15 you can pick up at walmart for a few hundred dollars.

it needs to be more like here, where the extra hoops that need jumped through to get hold of guns puts off the majority of casual buyers

I don’t disagree with any of the comments about tightening gun controls to similar levels as other countries, it would be a massive step but the level of existing gun ownership needs addressing nationally too.

We all know it’ll never happen though, it’s just sad to see kids die.

 

[teaboy5]

You can still take a lot of measures with someone with a mentally ill child, etc. in the house requiring them to keep most weapons elsewhere and strict control of any kept inside the house, etc. you can't completely stop it but in several past cases they've simply collected the guns and ammo while their parents are out with no hindrance and gone on a shooting spree.

I have said that iin an earlier post the correct storage of guns also needs sorted. Honestly it would be so simple to sort and bring into law it's unreal. But it's the states and it simply wont happen.

I can just hear some of the comments now from gun owners "The man isn't gonna tell me I can't own a gun because I want to kill myself every other day"

"The government can't tell me how to store a gun"


Sure Jesus I forgot to say you can own a fully automatic rifle here if you can give the PSNI reason enough to allow you one. Personal protection being the biggest reason.

 

[adolf hamster]

We have loads of guns and in NI we can also own handguns and keep them at home, which was removed from the mainland many years ago. Do you see people shooting up schools here? Nope because to own one you have to go through a lot hoops. To own a hand guns for example you must be a member of a club for one year and attended a number of times. If you get that far the police interview the club owners and do background checks etc. If you pass you can own as many handguns as you want.

in ni there's also open carry, although i've only ever seen one civilian in public with a gun, and in fairness it was a farmer dandering along a country lane with a shotgun.

contrast that with the open carry demonstrations they have in 'murica where a small army crowd of people celebrate the second amendment.

I don’t disagree with any of the comments about tightening gun controls to similar levels as other countries, it would be a massive step but the level of existing gun ownership needs addressing nationally too.

We all know it’ll never happen though, it’s just sad to see kids die.

the legal side isn't the difficult bit, after all there's plenty of experience in other countries as to how to control firearms.

what is difficult is the culture shift (as mentioned above in relation to open carry of firearms), the public acceptability of gun culture is too strong to be easily tamed.

 

[drunkenmaster]

I don’t disagree with any of the comments about tightening gun controls to similar levels as other countries, it would be a massive step but the level of existing gun ownership needs addressing nationally too.

We all know it’ll never happen though, it’s just sad to see kids die.

What needs to happen alongside making guns extremely difficult to buy if you are any kind of threat to yourself or others, existing owners need to register their guns, links between police, healthcare need to be established so those who become a risk can have their guns taken away. Enacting all that then you will find a pretty steep drop in shootings from people who aren't all their and over a longer period as more normal criminals have their guns taken when arrested and houses searched, the number of guns in the hands of criminals will drop drastically over time which will result in less gun crime in general.

It's pretty much an all or nothing situation though. As someone tried to make the flawed point about Chicago at one time having fairly strict gun laws, they are both much more relaxed now but a half hour drive into Indiana would get you guns with no waiting list, no real checks, no licence required and few guns banned. Strict gun control that can be bypassed with anything from a 15min to 3 hour drive into another state is nearly worthless.

 

[teaboy5]

in ni there's also open carry, although i've only ever seen one civilian in public with a gun, and in fairness it was a farmer dandering along a country lane with a shotgun.

contrast that with the open carry demonstrations they have in 'murica where a small army crowd of people celebrate the second amendment.



the legal side isn't the difficult bit, after all there's plenty of experience in other countries as to how to control firearms.

what is difficult is the culture shift (as mentioned above in relation to open carry of firearms), the public acceptability of gun culture is too strong to be easily tamed.

Yes you can open carry and will see it all the time. But you might have issues with the police if you were carrying the shotgun loaded and walking down the road going to the area you may be hunting. But then who in their right mind does that anyway.

 

[adolf hamster]

Yes you can open carry and will see it all the time. But you might have issues with the police if you were carrying the shotgun loaded and walking down the road going to the area you may be hunting.

i've only seen it the once in public, not counting ranges and private land. the chap looked like he was walking home and had it slung on his back, couldn't say if he had it loaded or not.

But then who in their right mind does that anyway.

exactly, it's not the done thing.

 

[mid_gen]

So banning guns is bad. People who like guns should have them, but bad folks shouldn’t.

If it saves kids lives why not just get rid of them? Genuinely? Is people having fun with guns more important than kids lives?

As already posted, the answer is yes. Americans fundamentally believe that dead schoolchildren is a price worth paying to participate in a bit of sport.

Ignoring the fact that they could perfectly well do those sports with guns kept under lock and key in a club house....that's still too inconvenient, kids lives aren't worth it.

 

[Minstadave]

As already posted, the answer is yes. Americans fundamentally believe that dead schoolchildren is a price worth paying to participate in a bit of sport.

Ignoring the fact that they could perfectly well do those sports with guns kept under lock and key in a club house....that's still too inconvenient, kids lives aren't worth it.

Sums it up pretty well. I guess this is just part of the American dream.

 

[MissChief]

I struggle to understand why someone needs an AR15 to go hunting!

 

[Minstadave]

I struggle to understand why someone needs an AR15 to go hunting!

They’re pretty useless for personal defense too. Yet millions are owned.

 

[Rroff]

They’re pretty useless for personal defense too. Yet millions are owned.

The M4 carbine (though not a variant generally owned) isn't bad for personal defence assuming you want to lug around something that size. While I'm not a fan I can see why people like the looks of the gun especially when carbonised/skeletonised blinged out. They are also pretty light for what they are.