Today's mass shooting in the US

[adolf hamster]

That justifying owning a weapon because it looks good is ridiculous.

Thats not what he said though, he said that the ar15 platform is a viable option for self defence, and that if your going to go for a weapon for self defence its understandable why people like the racy ones.

Its like saying you need a car for transport, but part of your motivation for buying the car you have is based on how you like the looks (well, unless you drive a fiat multipla, vauxhall agila or renault megane)

The looks arent the sole justification.

 

[Rroff]

It's not closed minded, it's common sense.

If people are collecting weapons that could easily be used by themselves, or people who steal them, to commit mass murder, because they like the look then they're either stupid, selfish or both.

Aesthetics are at the bottom of any list of justifications for owning guns.

There is nothing common sense about that its closed minded prohibitionism.

The looks arent the sole justification.

TBH sometimes it is just looks - if our laws were different I'd get myself one of the original style Thompson sub machine gun because I think it is an interesting looking weapon - not too bothered about whether it was active or not but there is something about having one that can actually fire even if its entirely one shot and manual feeding without a working magazine. If I had an active one it would be stored entirely separate to the ammunition possibly at a range, etc.

To lump me in with people who'd commit acts like today because of it is disgusting.

 

[hornetstinger]

That justifying owning a weapon because it looks good is ridiculous.

Some rifles, flintlocks and revolvers are a work of art.

 

[Jono8]

I'm not saying there that people don't also enjoy target shooting with them, which they might or might not - but emphasis being most of these people have no interest in using them to and never will to shoot a person let alone a child.

As per some of my other posts in this thread its possible to enjoy shooting firearms for target, etc. without having them able to use semi or fully automatic fire which begs the question as to why such firing modes are legal (though full auto is generally not). In bolt action, etc. type configuration it makes it very hard to use them to carry out sprees like this.

If you like shooting guns at targets, then im sure safe target ranges can be set up where the guns are controlled and do not leave the premises.

If you want a pretty gun to look at, deactivate it and put it on your mantelpiece.

 

[adolf hamster]

There is a strange fascination with the AR-15 platform in the US not sure what it is. Plenty of people do go hunting with them.

Probably a combination of it being an iconic american design, being highly customisable, and at the end of the day being a very good design both functionally and ergonomically.

 

[hornetstinger]

If you like shooting guns at targets, then im sure safe target ranges can be set up where the guns are controlled and do not leave the premises.

If you want a pretty gun to look at, deactivate it and put it on your mantelpiece.

That probably ruins the price. Like having a several hundred year old spiked mace, but then grinding down the spikes because it's dangerous.

 

[kwerk]

They’re pretty useless for personal defense too. Yet millions are owned.

Seemed pretty useful in Northern Ireland. They even write a song about it, "Armalite in the ear".

Imagine if the IRA had a million of them.

 

[jsmoke]

I am just in. What it the tl;dr. I see 17 dead, any more ifo?

 

[Rroff]

Isn't really that much more info than that on the BBC - lots of talk now about how the FBI were warned about him, etc.

Its a kind of sad indictment of the US that someone can own a gun at that age, make comments like he had online and nada absolutely nothing done though they are now claiming they were unable to accurately identify the person behind it.

 

[adolf hamster]

TBH sometimes it is just looks - if our laws were different I'd get myself one of the original style Thompson sub machine gun because I think it is an interesting looking weapon - not too bothered about whether it was active or not but there is something about having one that can actually fire even if its entirely one shot and manual feeding without a working magazine. If I had an active one it would be stored entirely separate to the ammunition possibly at a range, etc.

To lump me in with people who'd commit acts like today because of it is disgusting.

This is why i went into airsoft, sure it's not exactly the same (no proper recoil/noise), but you can just buy whatever takes your fancy. Plus shooting is much more fun when the target's allowed to shoot back

In fact i was at the local shop today and they'd just got a fresh batch of gas blow back m1 thompsons, i'd be tempted but i cant justify the money after getting an mg42 at christmas.

Of course i get why people want a real gun, i just cant be bothered with the hassle and expense, which is proof if more were needed that gun control works- i like guns and i wont even try to get one.

 

[Rroff]

This is why i went into airsoft, sure it's not exactly the same (no proper recoil/noise), but you can just buy whatever takes your fancy. Plus shooting is much more fun when the target's allowed to shoot back

In fact i was at the local shop today and they'd just got a fresh batch of gas blow back m1 thompsons, i'd be tempted but i cant justify the money after getting an mg42 at christmas.

Of course i get why people want a real gun, i just cant be bothered with the hassle and expense, which is proof if more were needed that gun control works- i like guns and i wont even try to get one.

I used to do a bit my work colleagues who I went along with were more into it than I was though and they've since all left. I don't really enjoy shooting at things even airsoft (other than range targets) though - other than in video games which might seem a strange distinction heh. Though I'm not squeamish about it I'd never go hunting except out of necessity.

 

[rubberduck]

Why doesn't usa get around 2nd amendment by prohibiting the sale of ammo?

 

[Rroff]

Why doesn't usa get around 2nd amendment by prohibiting the sale of ammo?

That would conflict with the infringement part well armed isn't just about having a gun but being able to use it. Then there is the fact that (partly due to the whole thing about Obama banning sale of ammo) huge amounts have been stockpiled with an estimated near 100 billion rounds in civilian storage in the US.

One of the problems with the second amendment as per some of the posts above though is that a good number of those against firearms just want to see them gone they have no interest in the fact that the vast majority of those who own them are only interested in "quiet" enjoyment of them or any objectivity so there is no proper reasoned debate which might have a chance of substantial changes and suspicion of any suggestion of measures curtailing firearms.

EDIT: Good video on the situation in the UK here actually I think people might be surprised by the actual scale of firearm ownership in the UK and access despite the regulations we have: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78VDHtA-6YE yet we don't see (outside of some very exceptional ones) incidents like in the US without the need for some "common sense" complete taking away of guns.

 

[Jean-F]

I emailed a few friends in the U.S. today, to express my condolences and ongoing disbelief at what seems to be coming to be a regular occurrence there.
I had a reply this evening from one, a judge in a children’s court in Brooklyn NYC.
She said that she is sick at her country’s seeming unwillingness to tackle this, sick at the NRA, sick at Congress.
She said that if it wasn’t for her partner, her daughter, her grandchildren, and her friends, she would look at relocating to the U.K., Australia, or Canada, she added that she feels that U.S. citizens are not welcome in Canada, this was news to me.
I’ve always been aware of friendly banter between the two countries, Canadians saying that Americans are loud and brash, and Americans saying that Canada is freezing and lives in the past, but I find it hard to believe that an educated, intelligent American would be unwelcome in Canada.

 

[Rroff]

I’ve always been aware of friendly banter between the two countries, Canadians saying that Americans are loud and brash, and Americans saying that Canada is freezing and lives in the past, but I find it hard to believe that an educated, intelligent American would be unwelcome in Canada.

I'm not really intimate with Canadian/US relations - but when I was there a few years back did some day trips into Canada and hung out (at the same time) with a mixture of people from both countries and there didn't seem to be any friction at all other than some very light hearted banter and a lot of welcoming from the Canadian side and (positive) jokes about moving to Canada.

 

[adolf hamster]

I used to do a bit my work colleagues who I went along with were more into it than I was though and they've since all left. I don't really enjoy shooting at things even airsoft (other than range targets) though - other than in video games which might seem a strange distinction heh. Though I'm not squeamish about it I'd never go hunting except out of necessity.

Fair enough, just seeing as you mentioned you'd like a wall hanger. Its not for everyone thats for sure.

 

[Rroff]

Fair enough, just seeing as you mentioned you'd like a wall hanger. Its not for everyone thats for sure.

I used to have an airsoft MP5SD but things got a bit complicated when the VCRA stuff came in and I wasn't playing frequently was just easier to get rid of it.

EDIT: Its bugging me now thinking about it - can't remember if it was Tokyo Marui or Classic Army dunno why that suddenly popped into my head.

 

[kwerk]

True, but a post above states that they use guns to go hunting. And they have an AR-15.

They are used for coyotes, prarie dogs, wild pigs and small deer in some places. AR10s that shoot the bigger bullets are used for hunting deer.

AR15s are supposed to be safer than shotguns or pistols for home defense because the bullets are so light they dont penetrate walls much. And american houses are basically made of cardboard. Most cop cars have an AR next to the driver seat instead of a shotgun now.

Or for something like hurricane katrina or the LA riots you'd want one.

But mainly its about distrust of the federal government.

 

[jsmoke]

I had a 22, no just a .22 air rifle when I was younger. Not got the power of a real rifle but pretty similar in size and shape.

 

[adolf hamster]

I used to have an airsoft MP5SD but things got a bit complicated when the VCRA stuff came in and I wasn't playing frequently was just easier to get rid of it.

EDIT: Its bugging me now thinking about it - can't remember if it was Tokyo Marui or Classic Army dunno why that suddenly popped into my head.

As far as i understand it the vrca only covers buying new replicas, owning them is fine (even when "grandfathered") afaik.

Cant say its a side of it i've thought much of given i go regular anyway. Although i imagine as long as you arent waving it around in public it'll be fine.