Today's mass shooting in the US

[Caracus2k]

19 year olds are adults smooth brain, they aren't classed as children anywhere else, hell 18 years olds are also adults. It's the very definition of misleading, in order for your silly little facebook image to be correct it needs to post the data for 17 and under.

Where is the rise the highest? Which demographic? Hint its the usual one that contributes to the majority of firearm homicides. The major contributing factor to the rise are a bunch of gangbangers shooting **** up and innocent "children" getting caught in the crossfire.

I can't believe his still going with this one. Lumping 18 and 19 year old teenagers in with 'children' for firearms deaths is extremely disingenuous.

And it should be clear that a lot of the people that would be lumped into a 1-19 age range for firearms fatalities would themselves be the criminal gang members that are responsible for an awful lot of murders in the US (primarily using handguns).

 

[Sankari]

19 year olds are adults smooth brain, they aren't classed as children anywhere else, hell 18 years olds are also adults. It's the very definition of misleading, in order for your silly little facebook image to be correct it needs to post the data for 17 and under.

I woke up feeling incredibly generous today, so I've updated the infographic with a new figure that only includes firearm deaths among minors (<18). This reduces the average daily death toll from 12 to 5, which is still the highest in the Western world by a gigantic margin.

Where is the rise the highest? Which demographic? Hint its the usual one that contributes to the majority of firearm homicides. The major contributing factor to the rise are a bunch of gangbangers shooting **** up and innocent "children" getting caught in the crossfire.

Firstly, which demographic are you referring to, and secondly, so what? It doesn't change the facts I've presented. It doesn't mean we can now pretend the US doesn't have a massive firearm problem, eclipsing every other Western nation.

 

[C Kent]

I woke up feeling incredibly generous today, so I've updated the infographic with a new figure that only includes firearm deaths among minors (<18). This reduces the average daily death toll from 12 to 5, which is still the highest in the Western world by a gigantic margin.

AKA I can't admit I was wrong so I'll make a pithy remark about being generous. No, you were incorrect.

Next up you'll need to look at the <1% figure for SDGU violent crimes, as the figures you've used are for the years 2007-2011, more recent data is available as the National Crime Victimization survey is run every year - I'm good to wait a few days as per last time for your updated figures homeslice.

Firstly, which demographic are you referring to, and secondly, so what? It doesn't change the facts I've presented. It doesn't mean we can now pretend the US doesn't have a massive firearm problem, eclipsing every other Western nation.

'facts'

It matters because as usual the ban guns brigade ignore who commit the majority of murders.. hint it's not law abiding citizens.

 

[Sankari]

Next up you'll need to look at the <1% figure for SDGU violent crimes, as the figures you've used are for the years 2007-2011

Actually those figures span 1997-2011, demonstrating incredible consistency. The most recent report spans 1993-2018, and shows that the figure of <1% still has not changed.

If you have any data which shows the figure has risen significantly from <1%, please show it.

It matters because as usual the ban guns brigade ignore whocommit the majority of murders.. hint it's not law abiding citizens.

Nobody's ignoring the fact that criminals commit the majority of murders (keep in mind that everyone's a law abiding citizen until they break the law for the first time; you become a criminal by default simply by committing murder, even if you've never done it before). I presume you mean career criminals, hardened criminals, criminal gangs, etc.

But even if that's true, so what? It does not change the statistics, does not change the number of deaths, does not change the fact that the US has the worst firearm problem in the Western world, and does not change the fact that America's weak gun laws have enabled this. You're simply refusing to face reality.

 

[SpellowHouse]

You may be the exception rather than the rule. But it does seem a vast majority of trans people have deep psychological and mental issues long before even before they come out.

I think you are talking about something you know zero about, besides, it has nothing to do with the shooting. The person was a nutcase. To make any connection to anything else the person was, is, did, didn't do, is just guesswork. The media just mention "trans" knowing that people will make uninformed associations, and sure enough they do!

It's a very complicated subject and it doesn't help when people sensationalise it.

Personally, I don't get it, you can be a man, or a woman, and like people of the same sex, if you are a man who thinks they were born in the wrong body, but still like women, whats the point in the drugs and transitioning, yeah fine, wear women clothes, but surely not just be a transvestive, guess it doesn't effect me so I wouldn't get it...

It's very difficult to view the world through another persons eyes when they think very differently to you. But what I don't get, is why people who don't get it seem to think they can make sensible comments about it?!?

 

[C Kent]

Actually those figures span 1997-2011, demonstrating incredible consistency. The most recent report spans 1993-2018, and shows that the figure of <1% still has not changed.

If you have any data which shows the figure has risen significantly from <1%, please show it.

The report above (not included amongst the links previously) shows the number at 2%, not <1%.

There's also the issue where your little infographic uses 2 different time periods as it were, post covid for deaths and pre covid for SDGU's. It may not impact the numbers persay, but for consistency's sake, you should use the same time periods - especially as there has been a spike since covid in firearm deaths (both homicides and suicides).

You are also missing the point that the number of violent crimes that didn't happen due to the deterrent of the potential victim carrying a weapon are obscenely high.

Nobody's ignoring the fact that criminals commit the majority of murders (keep in mind that everyone's a law abiding citizen until they break the law for the first time; you become a criminal by default simply by committing murder, even if you've never done it before). I presume you mean career criminals, hardened criminals, criminal gangs, etc.

Sure, criminals/democrats/other, whatever floats your boat

But even if that's true, so what? It does not change the statistics, does not change the number of deaths, does not change the fact that the US has the worst firearm problem in the Western world,

Does it though? Only if you ignore places like Mexico, South Africa, Russia, Brazil etc etc.

and does not change the fact that America's weak gun laws have enabled this. You're simply refusing to face reality.

And 80% of homicides are committed with an illegally obtained firearm, with the vast majority of those being committed with a hand gun.

 

[robgmun]

I think you are talking about something you know zero about, besides,

Unless you're Trans yourself it can be argued you know just as much. And yes it might be anecdotal but i can literally spend the entire day post example after example after example of mentally ill people that coincidently see themselves on the TQ+ spectrum that put themselves out there on social media. But that would be me spamming this thread to kingdom come

 

[VincentHanna]

yes it might be anecdotal but i can literally spend the entire day post example after example after example of mentally ill people that coincidently see themselves on the TQ+ spectrum that put themselves out there on social media. But that would be me spamming this thread to kingdom come

I could do the same for literally any race, colour or creed.

I'm not sure what it proves, other than there's a lot of mentally ill people out there.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Unless you're Trans yourself it can be argued you know just as much. And yes it might be anecdotal but i can literally spend the entire day post example after example after example of mentally ill people that coincidently see themselves on the TQ+ spectrum that put themselves out there on social media. But that would be me spamming this thread to kingdom come

But that's just not scientific at all. I mean anyone can make up their mind then find examples to prove their point.

I am not saying my opinion is right about trans people, what I am questioning is the way other people arrive at their opinion.

 

[C Kent]

what I am questioning is the way other people arrive at their opinion.

Biological facts

 

[Sankari]

The report above (not included amongst the links previously) shows the number at 2%, not <1%.

Which report? Show me the data. And 2%, LOL! Wow, you're still making my point for me.

There's also the issue where your little infographic uses 2 different time periods as it were, post covid for deaths and pre covid for SDGU's. It may not impact the numbers persay, but for consistency's sake, you should use the same time periods - especially as there has been a spike since covid in firearm deaths (both homicides and suicides).

I would use the same time period for both if the data was available. It's not, so I'm using what's available. At any rate, how does this help your argument? You want me to show that the US firearm death rate is even higher?

You are also missing the point that the number of violent crimes that didn't happen due to the deterrent of the potential victim carrying a weapon are obscenely high.

Oh are they? Let's see the statistics for that. How on earth can we know when a crime was deterred by a potential victim carrying a weapon, unless that crime was attempted? You really are grasping at straws now.

Does it though? Only if you ignore places like Mexico, South Africa, Russia, Brazil etc etc.

Mexico's firearm deaths per capita is lower than the USA's. South Africa and Russia are not part of the Western world. I'll grant you Brazil, which is higher than the US. It's the only one.

And 80% of homicides are committed with an illegally obtained firearm, with the vast majority of those being committed with a hand gun.

If you have fewer firearms in circulation, it's more difficult to obtain one, whether legally or illegally. That's why other Western nations have stricter firearm legislation than the US. It's also one of the reasons why they have fewer firearm deaths.

Can you explain why the US is such a huge outlier in firearm deaths? Why are the rates so low in the UK, Germany, France, Australia, etc. by comparison? What are these countries doing differently that keeps their firearm deaths so low? Do these countries simply have no criminals? No gangs? No people with mental health problems? What's your answer?

 

[C Kent]

Which report? Show me the data.

The report you linked in the quoted post!!!

And 2%, LOL! Wow, you're still making my point for me.

I would use the same time period for both if the data was available. It's not, so I'm using what's available. At any rate, how does this help your argument? You want me to show that the US firearm death rate is even higher?

If you are going to post stupid Facebook ****, at least have it stand up to the most basic of scrutiny.

Oh are they? Let's see the statistics for that. How on earth can we know when a crime was deterred by a potential victim carrying a weapon, unless that crime was attempted? You really are grasping at straws now.

Obviously, its going to be hard to prove, but there are numerous studies done by both the Government and various orgs. They are linked in this thread if you want to check them out.

Mexico's firearm deaths per capita is lower than the USA's.

Mexico is approx 17 per 100k, the USA is 10. Last time I checked 17 is greater than 10....

South Africa and Russia are not part of the Western world.

Depends on the definition of Western doesnt - Russia would be included. South Africa wouldn't though, so I'll give you that.

If you have fewer firearms in circulation, it's more difficult to obtain one, whether legally or illegally. That's why other Western nations have stricter firearm legislation than the US. It's also one of the reasons why they have fewer firearm deaths.

But the guns are in circulation..

Can you explain why the US is such a huge outlier in firearm deaths? Why are the rates so low in the UK, Germany, France, Australia, etc. by comparison? What are these countries doing differently that keeps their firearm deaths so low? Do these countries simply have no criminals? No gangs? No people with mental health problems? What's your answer?

Cultural, economical and ethnicity all play a part in the firearm death numbers.

 

[Trig]

I'll say this, I saw my dentist for the first time since coming out and they were amazed at the difference, even by the way I stood they could tell I was happier.

Personally, if its a choice that you, as a functioning adult, has come to on your own, but the way that its being pushed these days and you can get various drugs and 'help' that to me just shouts out people jumping on bandwagons under the guise of 'helping people' at the same time as lining their own pockets, and that, time and time again seems to be a primary driver for a lot of people while they pretend its the right thing to do...

 

[Trig]

It's very difficult to view the world through another persons eyes when they think very differently to you. But what I don't get, is why people who don't get it seem to think they can make sensible comments about it?!?

Yeah I get that, but part of the solution is a reasonable conversation, not shouting and attacking each other...

 

[Meaker]

Personally, if its a choice that you, as a functioning adult, has come to on your own, but the way that its being pushed these days and you can get various drugs and 'help' that to me just shouts out people jumping on bandwagons under the guise of 'helping people' at the same time as lining their own pockets, and that, time and time again seems to be a primary driver for a lot of people while they pretend its the right thing to do...

It's not pushing though, it's giving the option. I see no harm in a teenage student asking their teachers to try a different name or pronouns with no obligation to stick with it.

Now because of government guidance they are not even allowed to have nick names in the register, it must be their legal name.

We need a balanced view focused on the best outcomes and a totally ignoring the issue will just lead to suicides at the end of the day.

 

[VincentHanna]

Simpsons satire on the subject of guns from 1997 is still on the money

 

[Trig]

It's not pushing though, it's giving the option. I see no harm in a teenage student asking their teachers to try a different name or pronouns with no obligation to stick with it.

Now because of government guidance they are not even allowed to have nick names in the register, it must be their legal name.

We need a balanced view focused on the best outcomes and a totally ignoring the issue will just lead to suicides at the end of the day.

Yeah maybe as a teenager, but you hear all these stories of <10 girls that play with GI Joe' or like football and they're really boys, or boys that play with dolls, they're girls and the parents all are all like 'my boys a girl or my girls a boy' and then suddenly there are all these options and 'treatments' available, usually in the US, and maybe its media sensationalism, or just me being sceptical...

 

[Meaker]

It's mostly media panic, usually to distract from something the government is up to.

Trans people are not trying to assault people in the bathroom or indoctrinate kids. We have been around a lot longer than the current panic and there was never an issue before...

We are trying to stop so many suicides by those who feel trapped.

Yeah maybe as a teenager, but you hear all these stories of <10 girls that play with GI Joe' or like football and they're really boys, or boys that play with dolls, they're girls and the parents all are all like 'my boys a girl or my girls a boy' and then suddenly there are all these options and 'treatments' available, usually in the US, and maybe its media sensationalism, or just me being sceptical...

 

[Trig]

Theres always 'bad' elements in any group that'll take advantage and ruin it for others..
AFAIK I've only had one interaction with a trans person and I treated her the same way as I treated him as our interaction had nothing to do with gender and was just taken on at face value..

 

[Twinz]

The idea that an individual can dictate other people's perception of them strikes me as Orwellian.

We all have an idea of what we want other people to think of us, but the best we can reasonably hope for is to make a convincing-enough case that others agree.

If I just demand that others "identify" me as (insert whatever trait here) the best result I should expect is coerced-pretending.