Today's mass shooting in the US

Trying to dictate perception is the Orwellian part.

I won't be a dick but you specifically used a name which you now don't mean (and I agree, because you were wrong).

If you're going to bring out the big guns to back up your 'argument' then at least have the decency to know what the chap or lady might have said and you're relying on.
 
I won't be a dick [snip]

Apparently, yes. Yes, you will.

I'm speaking specifically about 1984 and the way in which the protagonist was coerced into re-aligning his views. I'm 50 and it's been a while since I read 1984 in high school, but I'm reasonably sure that coercing people's views was a tactic that was employed in that book.

This is why it comes to mind when I see someone expects to dictate someone else's perception.
 
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Apparently, yes. Yes, you will.

I'm speaking specifically about 1984 and the way in which the protagonist was coerced into re-aligning his views. I'm 50 and it's been a while since I read 1984 in high school, but I'm reasonably sure that coercing people's views was a tactic that was employed in that book.

This is why it comes to mind when I see someone expects to dictate someone else's perception.
1984 is one of my favorite books of all time and I've read it at least half a dozen times. And what happening today with the control of language is straight out of the Insoc playbook, and it's frightening.
 
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The idea that an individual can dictate other people's perception of them strikes me as Orwellian.

We all have an idea of what we want other people to think of us, but the best we can reasonably hope for is to make a convincing-enough case that others agree.

If I just demand that others "identify" me as (insert whatever trait here) the best result I should expect is coerced-pretending.

We all make demands of others in a social setting and have expectations, the exact rules of that vary from culture to culture and are always in flux.

It's like a person called Dave who's legal name is David, they are going to get rightfully annoyed if you insist on calling them David even when their email address and signature both say Dave.
 
Our names aren't even something we give ourselves so what does it even matter if someone wants to be called something different than what their parents forced onto them?
 
Our names aren't even something we give ourselves so what does it even matter if someone wants to be called something different than what their parents forced onto them?
Yup

I remember at school there were times when teachers looked almost relieved when the second or third kid with the same name in a class would say something like "can you call me..."*
It's also fairly basic levels of politeness to call someone by their preferred name, I've knew kids who hated their first name so everyone called them by their middle name, or like my sister who always preferred the short version of her name, even my parents usually called her by that.

I've said it before but I've known people for years before finding out their actual on the birth certificate first name, because literally everyone called them by a different name.


*I can imagine how bad it might be for some teachers in years when the likes of every third kid was a Britney or a David, or worse due to some fad TV/film series or celeb.
 
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Yup

I remember at school there were times when teachers looked almost relieved when the second or third kid in a class would say something like "can you call me..."
It's also fairly basic levels of politeness to call someone by their preferred name, I've knew kids who hated their first name so everyone called them by their middle name, or like my sister who always preferred the short version of her name, even my parents usually called her by that.

I've said it before but I've known people for years before finding out their actual on the birth certificate first name, because literally everyone called them by a different name.

Yep, it's why Morse never liked to be called by his first name.
 
Our names aren't even something we give ourselves so what does it even matter if someone wants to be called something different than what their parents forced onto them?

Our sex isn't something we chose ourselves, so what does it even matter if someone wants to use different pronouns than what they were assigned at birth?
 
Our sex isn't something we chose ourselves
You may want to have a word with the majority of trans people as they disagree with you.
so what does it even matter if someone wants to use different pronouns than what they were assigned at birth?
People are free to do whatever they wish (within the legal framework), what you can't do is demand, coerce, or intimidate others to follow suit.
 
Sex is also more consequential than name because society seperates the two sexes in certain scenarios.

Names don't generally give someone access to something they wouldn't have with a different name. I guess when someone gets too specific by claiming a full name and social security number, they can gain acces to things they shouldn't, but that's called Identify theft and it's illegal.

If we accept that males and females should have spaces/scenarios that exclude members of the opposite sex, sex needs to be a falsifiable / objective trait, not an individual declaration.
 
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Yup

I remember at school there were times when teachers looked almost relieved when the second or third kid with the same name in a class would say something like "can you call me..."*
It's also fairly basic levels of politeness to call someone by their preferred name, I've knew kids who hated their first name so everyone called them by their middle name, or like my sister who always preferred the short version of her name, even my parents usually called her by that.

I've said it before but I've known people for years before finding out their actual on the birth certificate first name, because literally everyone called them by a different name.


*I can imagine how bad it might be for some teachers in years when the likes of every third kid was a Britney or a David, or worse due to some fad TV/film series or celeb.


Proper schools use surnames ;)
 
It's misleading because it's a lie. It's 1-19 year olds. Check the data.

You say "Western country" to purposely exclude Korea? Yeah cultural this and that in Korea, but the U.S. is an rather unstable country with high mental illness a lack of safety nets. I don't removing guns would have much impact on suicide rates. And it's misleading because it doesn't mention that. People will think based on that statistic that 30k+ people are gunned down in the street each year, but that's not true.

The thread title says mass shooting... your infographics isn't related, so why bring it up?


Do you think the high suicide rate might be due to the fact of how easy it is to kill yourself with a gun? If we were to place suicide booths on every street corner would the suicide rate go up or down?
 
Do you think the high suicide rate might be due to the fact of how easy it is to kill yourself with a gun?
Not to any sort of noticeable degree no. Plenty of other countries have higher suicide rates where guns are far harder to come by.

If we were to place suicide booths on every street corner would the suicide rate go up or down?
So canada in a few years time then?
 
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Not to any sort of noticeable degree no. Plenty of other countries have higher suicide rates where guns are far harder to come by.


So canada in a few years time then?

So because a country has high suicide rates without guns you are saying with access to guns that rate wouldn't increase further? Its fairly obvious that the easier you make it to do something, the more people inclined to do it will do it. Shooting yourself is the easiest and quickest way to kill yourself, given that option many who didn't do it because they didn't like the idea of say hanging themselves would have killed themselves with a gun. If not why are guns used in so many suicides?
 
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