Today's mass shooting in the US

Chris Wilson said:
For a change in here I cite below what is perhaps a bit of positivity for civilians being armed: ...

Sometimes having civilians handy with a gun can save lives...
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Legally armed civilians in the USA regularly stop armed criminals from committing murder or armed robbery. Here are a few cases recently reported in the US media:

Gun-toting dad who thwarted mass shooting despite being shot in head now training others on self-defense

Pregnant woman shoots potential robber at Houston gas station

Chicago concealed carry holder foils late-night armed robbery attempt

Armed Las Vegas worker stopped likely mass shooter in his tracks: expert

Philadelphia concealed gun holder acted in self-defense, fatally shooting attacker at cemetery: DA

There were school shootings that were ended by legally armed civilians too. The liberal media often neglect to report on these sort of cases though as they don't fit into the narrative that civilian gun possession = bad. Of course, we never hear of cases where a civilian used a legally owned firearm to frighten away a violent criminal without opening fire on them.

It all comes down to preventing high-risk people from getting firearms. In most (all?) US states it is already a crime for convicted felons to own a gun and in many US states they bar ownership by people with serious mental illnesses. But they have the gun show loophole and patchy (state-level) background checking combined with a large black market for firearms sitting beneath the huge legal civilian firearm market.

Some parts of the USA are so violent that you'd be glad to have a legally held pistol and the right to carry it in a concealed manner if you had to live there. Therefore, it would be unfortunate to force law-abiding people living in dangerous areas to give up their legally held guns because nutcases keep going on shooting sprees.

Bear in mind too that there is a lot of case-law that has established that the Police in the USA do not have a legal obligation to protect the lives of civilians above all else. That's why the former deputy for the Broward County Sheriff's Office who failed to go into the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School when there was an active shooter in there killing 17 people was found not guilty recently, despite him being the designated first-responder to a school shooting there!
 
StriderX said:
And yet America is still grossly violent and the prisons are overflowing.

Doesn't seem like guns make it better.
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The UK prisons are also overflowing and we no longer allow anything other than shotguns to the carefully approved citizen. As an aside you'll detest, the largest percentage of prisoners in UK prisons are foreigners per capita.
 
Chris Wilson said:
The UK prisons are also overflowing and we no longer allow anything other than shotguns to the carefully approved citizen. As an aside you'll detest, the largest percentage of prisoners in UK prisons are foreigners per capita.
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Good comparison. Not.

The UK has a prison population of around 0.13%, the US has around .6% of it's people in prison (IIRC one of the highest rates in the world along with some of the most stupidly long sentences for all the good that does*).

And yes "per capita" foreigners will likely be higher than "natives" in the UK, but that's nothing like the "gotcha" I suspect you think it is, it'll be because there are far fewer of them to begin with, and the flight risk is higher so they're more likely to be denied bail or early/community release schemes.


*Given the US has an actual "detection" rate for many crimes that is appalling, despite the insane amounts spent on their police budgets.
 
Werewolf said:
Good comparison. Not.

The UK has a prison population of around 0.13%, the US has around .6% of it's people in prison (IIRC one of the highest rates in the world along with some of the most stupidly long sentences for all the good that does*).

And yes "per capita" foreigners will likely be higher than "natives" in the UK, but that's nothing like the "gotcha" I suspect you think it is, it'll be because there are far fewer of them to begin with, and the flight risk is higher so they're more likely to be denied bail or early/community release schemes.


*Given the US has an actual "detection" rate for many crimes that is appalling, despite the insane amounts spent on their police budgets.
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OK, all good (statistically) here then, no problems, no ethnic divergence per capita in the serious violent crime figures... ? :)

I've never had an ostrich, could I borrow you to see how they live day to day? I have a sand pit for your convenience... ;)
 
Chris Wilson said:
The UK prisons are also overflowing and we no longer allow anything other than shotguns to the carefully approved citizen. As an aside you'll detest, the largest percentage of prisoners in UK prisons are foreigners per capita.
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The proportion of ethnic minority prisoners is around double the general population proportion.

Would be interesting to see how that breaks by age. I guess that younger prisoners (and population generally) skews higher for ethnic minorities, and that could impact this.

It will also be affected by relative wealth, but I can't be bothered tabling that up.
 
C Kent said:
statistics are racist my good man, do keep up :)
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statistics without context provide nothing apart from giving people something to cling on to.
Richard - London said:
All of his points are true? You just don’t like what it means.
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Werewolf said:
And yes "per capita" foreigners will likely be higher than "natives" in the UK, but that's nothing like the "gotcha" I suspect you think it is, it'll be because there are far fewer of them to begin with, and the flight risk is higher so they're more likely to be denied bail or early/community release schemes.
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