Soldato
fair enough. i think that's a totally bonkers plan but each to their own. and i can only thank god your aren't in a position of power
Today's mass shooting in the US
- Thread starter Rroff
- Start date
How many burglaries (home invasions as they call them) are there in the USA vs. UK?
It doesn't matter.
Untrained civilians with firearms, don't know what they're doing and are a liability, to themselves and others.
Soldato
It doesn’t though, America literally proves that this isn’t true.
Again what mental gymnastics are you using here lmfao.
Wtf
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I'd be interested in seeing sprays being made legal in the uk as honestly a woman has no ******* chance against a bigger guy without them. But I'd like to see regulation like say each spray being smart water compatible and registered to the owner
The attacker is sprayed and easily trackable to an incident/victim but anyone using them to assult another is equally tied to the crime.
I've set some friends up with legal dye sprays before after they've had issues and yea hopefuly a guy is deterred when is face is basically covered in dripping blood red indelible ink but I and they have no doubt it will not stop the attack only make it easier to trace afterwards.
The attacker is sprayed and easily trackable to an incident/victim but anyone using them to assult another is equally tied to the crime.
I've set some friends up with legal dye sprays before after they've had issues and yea hopefuly a guy is deterred when is face is basically covered in dripping blood red indelible ink but I and they have no doubt it will not stop the attack only make it easier to trace afterwards.
. Its mad enough now then add guns 
Soldato
Doesn't what?
Proves they don't reduce crime is his point.
Take your example of a shopkeeper.
OK you're in tescos garage, manning the till, you've got your gun. Is it in your hand? Is it ready?
Where's the tobacco?
It's in the case behind you behind the shutter where it legaly needs to be
"Hey mate 30g pack of Amber leaf please"
where's your Gun? Is it aimed at the customer? Is it under the counter?
Your back is turned you're opening the tobacco cover....
When did you die and when did you have the chance to use your gun?
Life isn't a movie the cashier is bored ****less and isn't ready to end a life at every transaction.
You die with your back turned because why risk asking you if you have a gun?
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The law of unintended consequences springs to mind...
In reality, when something "kicks off" unexpectedly, it's often confusing, frightening and doesn't play out the way anyone expects.
If you have people tooled up with guns, tasers, sprays or whatever - things are going to go wrong, because untrained people with no conflict resolution skills, with no ability to control fear or know how to deescalate - are going to make bad decisions.
This idea, that because you're walking around with a weapon somehow makes you safer, when applied to large groups of people - is drastically wrong, and totally counter productive.
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It is either that or the hesitation - either due to not being sure who is actually the perpetrator, freezing up or self-doubt, etc. More often than not the bad guy(s) have the upper hand in these situations.
Along with the practical real-world difficulties of dealing with such a situation, there's the whole legal quagmire of what the 'reasonable' in 'reasonable force' actually means, in the context of a self defence argument.
If somebody feels threatened, or gets into a confrontation and things are not black and white (which is often the case) - if they're tooled up and they shoot and somebody gets killed, was it reasonable? was their life really at risk? at what point is it right to shoot? Did the person try to deescalate? did they make things worse?
How can an untrained person make such a decision under pressure and get it right?
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Soldato
If he's going to shoot me it would happen if I was armed or not.
But if I saw he had a gun and I had a gun in some scenarios I would have a chance to shoot.
If there were other customers in the shop and they saw he was trying to rob me then they could open fire on him.
I know it feels against our own psychology to advocate for every sane person to have a gun. But it is the only equaliser against armed crime.
If you were being robbed by an armed criminal and I saw it, I would shoot them.
Soldato
You may well think that is what you’d do here and now but you’ve no idea how you’d respond in real life. Without the necessary training you’d be as likely to shoot the person you’re trying to protect or get yourself and a load of others killed.
Edit: that’s not trying to have a dig at you by the way, the same holds true for myself or most everyone else.
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You seem to be completely missing/ignoring the point.
Which scenario is safer for your average convenience store employee?
A: Guns are restricted and rare. Get caught carrying one and you are in serious trouble. Criminals may be able to access them with difficulty, but they know civilians won't be armed. Why take the risk of serious prison time by using a gun when it's not absolutely necessary?
B: Everyone has a gun. Good guys and bad guys can buy them on the high street. Criminals act as though anyone they encounter could be armed and so they take no chances and shoot first.
You're assuming that people robbing shops are cold blooded murderers, they aren't. In the US / rest of the world, the gun is often just used as an intimidation device, sometimes not even loaded. They might be willing to risk an armed robbery charge but not murder / attempted murder.
There's a YouTube channel called Active Self Protection that analyses shooting and shopkeepers do, in fact, drive off criminals with their own guns in quite a few examples there (probably can't link here due to the nature of the content).
That's not actually what happens in countries with more liberal gun laws.
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Caporegime
Quite a bit.
* name: Dylan Butler
* age: 17
* sexuality: gay
* gender: identified as 'gender fluid'; used he/they pronouns
* interests: TikTok, femboys, Reddit transgender groups
* armed with: small calibre pistol, pump action shotgun, IED
* motive: uknown
* death: self inflicted
Someone has done their best to scrub his social media activity from the internet, but 4chan and KiwiFarms managed to archive a lot before it was all gone.
I don't see how you can know that, it just sounds like hyperbole.
People committing robbery at gunpoint, are likely not in a stable frame of mind (because their life has been reduced to committing robbery at gunpoint). So how can you say, or know whether these people are making informed decisions on how far they're willing to go, whilst in the middle of committing an offence?
In the rest of my post I referenced a YT channel that has analysed hundreds of videos of shooting incidents and it’s a repeated pattern.
If criminals were going in shooting from the get go it would be too dangerous to open a shop.
Have you decided to change your mind yet and answer my question about burglary rates in the US?
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