Today's mass shooting in the US

[deuse]

Trump is more interested in trying to use the tragedy to deflect blame from himself:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43102312

The FBI did make a very bad mistake again... And they admitted it.

Under Obama $29.1 billion in firearms and $16.6 billion in ammunition during his two terms.
"Gun Industry Says It Has Grown 158% Since Obama Took Office" April 2016.

Under Trump, gun sales are going down and Remington filed for bankruptcy.
So under Obama\Clinton fire sales hit a record period.

 

[chroniclard]

The FBI did make a very bad mistake again... And they admitted it.

Under Obama $29.1 billion in firearms and $16.6 billion in ammunition during his two terms.
"Gun Industry Says It Has Grown 158% Since Obama Took Office" April 2016.

Under Trump, gun sales are going down and Remington filed for bankruptcy.
So under Obama\Clinton fire sales hit a record period.

Possibly due to Obama/Clinton actually trying to implement(or talk about) gun control and the gun lobbies pushing "they are trying to take our guns" cue mass gun buying panic.

 

[magick]

Strange how when Muslims jump in a truck and run over 40 people or plant a bomb in a train station, the leftie liberals solution is to have candlelit vigils, offer prayers, call for restraint and say everything is ok and we should all carry on as normal (i.e do nothing) and that these types of acts are a part of living in a big city (Sidique Kahn). And often use the cover of mental illness to excuse these acts.

When someone mentaly ill decides to commit mass murder with a legaly purchased assault rifle the first thing the liberals say is get tough and impose restrictive laws that will greatly benefit the governement and disarm law abiding citizens. These same people who want to disarm americans are often the same people who believe passivity and non-violence is the best course of action against Islamic terrosists. Think about that before you let politicians and hollywood film stars who live in gated areas and have armed reponse protection/ security et al talk about removing the second ammendment.

 

[IronWarrior]

Strange how when Muslims jump in a truck and run over 40 people or plant a bomb in a train station, the leftie liberals solution is to have candlelit vigils, offer prayers, call for restraint and say everything is ok and we should all carry on as normal (i.e do nothing) and that these types of acts are a part of living in a big city (Sidique Kahn). And often use the cover of mental illness to excuse these acts.

When someone mentaly ill decides to commit mass murder with a legaly purchased assault rifle the first thing the liberals say is get tough and impose restrictive laws that will greatly benefit the governement and disarm law abiding citizens. These same people who want to disarm americans are often the same people who believe passivity and non-violence is the best course of action against Islamic terrosists. Think about that before you let politicians and hollywood film stars who live in gated areas and have armed reponse protection/ security et al talk about removing the second ammendment.

I agree with you on most everything you said, but can't deny that the current US gun laws is insane.

With some proper gun laws, things could be improved, taking ideas from Japan and Australia Gun laws would work a lot and make it so that firearms don't fell in the wrong hands but still allowing firearms and not banning them or any type that is currently available.

Improvements to their school, health system as well as culture would also help.

 

[Yas786]

Strange how when Muslims jump in a truck and run over 40 people or plant a bomb in a train station, the leftie liberals solution is to have candlelit vigils, offer prayers, call for restraint and say everything is ok and we should all carry on as normal (i.e do nothing) and that these types of acts are a part of living in a big city (Sidique Kahn). And often use the cover of mental illness to excuse these acts.

When someone mentaly ill decides to commit mass murder with a legaly purchased assault rifle the first thing the liberals say is get tough and impose restrictive laws that will greatly benefit the governement and disarm law abiding citizens. These same people who want to disarm americans are often the same people who believe passivity and non-violence is the best course of action against Islamic terrosists. Think about that before you let politicians and hollywood film stars who live in gated areas and have armed reponse protection/ security et al talk about removing the second ammendment.

What ya smoking there fella?? Must be some good stuff??

You really don’t understand what people are saying do you?? No one is saying take away your beloved guns people just want stricter gun laws so that mentally ill people or people that are known to be a danger do not get their hands on guns to cause mass killings.

You do know that the second amendment is only an amendment?? Meaning if they really really wanted to change it, they could amend it. But some people are too thick/stupid to actually understand that.

 

[MissChief]

A plane falling out of the sky isn't comparable with the execution of school children. We see the same happening with idiots on YouTube, some people crave attention and there are more than enough equivalent idiots who aspire to be those idiots. Take someone who has been ignored or shunned by society, especially someone with 'problems' who might feel their self-worth and self-esteem is so low they don't want to go on anymore, then they see these mass shootings and the media frenzy plastering photos of the attacker/s all over the news for days/weeks on end...do they blow their brains out isolated in their bedroom, or do they make a decision to go out in blaze of glory slaughtering others so that their name will live forever more in history?

You're right, a plane falling out of the sky is investigated thoroughly, they find out what happened, why it happened and put into place steps, be that regulation or design changes to stop it from happening again. Something that just doesn't happen in mass shootings. Everyone in government just says 'oh well, thoughts and prayers to all those affected' and does nothing whatsoever to investigate and try to prevent it from happening again.

 

[magick]

I agree with you on most everything you said, but can't deny that the current US gun laws is insane.

Maybe, but how come those are so quick to question US gun laws aren't so quick to question Islamic law that allows for murder of infidels and call for that to be outlawed. Sure 99.9% of Muslims don't beleive or would consider going on a killing spree. But 99.9% of people buying guns legaly in the US don'tcontemplate going postal either. All I'm getting at is I find politicians/the medias/liberals responses highly incosistant and hypocritical.

With some proper gun laws, things could be improved, taking ideas from Japan and Australia Gun laws would work a lot and make it so that firearms don't fell in the wrong hands but still allowing firearms and not banning them or any type that is currently available.

Improvements to their school, health system as well as culture would also help.

Agree 100%

 

[chroniclard]

Maybe, but how come those are so quick to question US gun laws aren't so quick to question Islamic law that allows for murder of infidels and call for that to be outlawed. Sure 99.9% of Muslims don't beleive or would consider going on a killing spree. But 99.9% of people buying guns legaly in the US don'tcontemplate going postal either. All I'm getting at is I find politicians/the medias/liberals responses highly incosistant and hypocritical.

In what reality is any of that true?

 

[magick]

You're right, a plane falling out of the sky is investigated thoroughly, they find out what happened, why it happened and put into place steps, be that regulation or design changes to stop it from happening again. Something that just doesn't happen in mass shootings. Everyone in government just says 'oh well, thoughts and prayers to all those affected' and does nothing whatsoever to investigate and try to prevent it from happening again.

Exactly the same response called for by our politicians, media and lefties when Islamic nutjobs decide to go on their holy rampages.

 

[explicit4u]

Exactly the same response called for by our politicians, media and lefties when Islamic nutjobs decide to go on their holy rampages.

What law or policy would you introduce to reduce or eliminate Islamic terrorism?

I think the difference is mass shootings like this are very preventable if they implemented some very basic checks. The Onion headline they post every time pretty much sums it up:

 

[Yas786]

Exactly the same response called for by our politicians, media and lefties when Islamic nutjobs decide to go on their holy rampages.

Well done for bringing muslims/Islam into this thread when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

You just couldn’t help yourself could you??

 

[VincentHanna]

and that these types of acts are a part of living in a big city (Sidique Kahn).

How many time do I have to correct people? He didn't even say that.

It keeps being completely misquoted

He said:

“Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job. We must never accept terrorists being successful, we must never accept that terrorists can destroy our life or destroy the way we lead our lives.”

 

[dowie]

Strange how when Muslims jump in a truck and run over 40 people or plant a bomb in a train station, the leftie liberals solution is to have candlelit vigils, offer prayers, call for restraint and say everything is ok and we should all carry on as normal (i.e do nothing) and that these types of acts are a part of living in a big city (Sidique Kahn). And often use the cover of mental illness to excuse these acts.

When someone mentaly ill decides to commit mass murder with a legaly purchased assault rifle the first thing the liberals say is get tough and impose restrictive laws that will greatly benefit the governement and disarm law abiding citizens. These same people who want to disarm americans are often the same people who believe passivity and non-violence is the best course of action against Islamic terrosists. Think about that before you let politicians and hollywood film stars who live in gated areas and have armed reponse protection/ security et al talk about removing the second ammendment.

True I guess, when you get an Islamist attack the US left tends to end up in denial, when you get a gimpy kid shooting up a school the US right tends to end up in denial.



Simple solutions tbh... crack down on guns, crack down on immigration from certain countries... stop pretending that restricting guns isn't the answer, stop pretending that islamist attacks have "nothing to do with Islam"...

 

[magick]

What law or policy would you introduce to reduce or eliminate Islamic terrorism?

It's very, very difficult to introduce a law against the theology of Islamic Terroism that isn't highly repressive and draconian and punishing towards almost all law abiding Muslims.

In exactly the same way it's actualy very difficult to bring in restrictive checks that wouldn't be deemed unconstitutional upon closer investigation. This is what many people miss, under the USA constitution of rights, the second ammendment allows the civilian right to bear arms. If a law or background check is introduced that in anyway breaches this right or inhibits law abiding citizens exercising this right it's illegal and won't make it through the legislative process. Many liberals/guncontrol supporters often spout that something has to happen and laws need to be changed but the problem lies in writing legislation that isn't unconstitutional or doesn't criminalise a very large section of the population.

 

[chroniclard]

It's very, very difficult to introduce a law against the theology of Islamic Terroism that isn't highly repressive and draconian and punishing towards almost all law abiding Muslims.

In exactly the same way it's actualy very difficult to bring in restrictive checks that wouldn't be deemed unconstitutional upon closer investigation. This is what many people miss, under the USA constitution of rights, the second ammendment allows the civilian right to bear arms. If a law or background check is introduced that in anyway breaches this right or inhibits law abiding citizens exercising this right it's illegal and won't make it through the legislative process. Many liberals/guncontrol supporters often spout that something has to happen and laws need to be changed but the problem lies in writing legislation that isn't unconstitutional or doesn't criminalise a very large section of the population.

Then the simple solution would be to amend the amendment.

 

[magick]

Then the simple solution would be to amend the amendment.

Amend the ammendment by reversing the same ammendment? Illegal and unconstitutional. Or do you mean changing it so that this right can only be execercised by those the current governemnt deem fit for it? Again illegal and unconstitutional.

We have to acknowledge for good or for ill the second ammedment exists and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Many may not like it or agree with it but aside from triggering another civil war, one the anti-gun lobby would very likely lose as they don't believe in arming themselves in the first place, the second ammendment right is here to stay.

 

[chroniclard]

Amend the ammendment by reversing the same ammendment? Illegal and unconstitutional. Or do you mean changing it so that this right can only be execercised by those the current governemnt deem fit for it? Again illegal and unconstitutional.

We have to acknowledge for good or for ill the second ammedment exists and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Many may not like it or agree with it but aside from triggering another civil war, one the anti-gun lobby would very likely lose as they don't believe in arming themselves in the first place, the second ammendment right is here to stay.

What am I missing here, why isnt it simple an issue of saying

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Given you are over 21 years of age, can pass a basic gun safety course, demonstrate safe gun storage, have no mental health issue, submit to a background check and are not a criminal"

You get to keep your guns and everyone is slightly happier.

 

[muon]

True I guess, when you get an Islamist attack the US left tends to end up in denial, when you get a gimpy kid shooting up a school the US right tends to end up in denial.



Simple solutions tbh... crack down on guns, crack down on immigration from certain countries... stop pretending that restricting guns isn't the answer, stop pretending that islamist attacks have "nothing to do with Islam"...

And have a sense of perspective.

Banning people and banning guns are very different things. Note that expelling everyone out of the USA will rid the USA of all crime.

Nevertheless it would be interesting to see the number of homicides linked to either. I have a feeling it will be something like 1000:1 if not more.

edit:

Since 9/11 foreign born terrorists have killed on average 1 person a year. Including 9/11 that remains fewer than 100 per year over 30 years.

 

[Orionaut]

There is another aspect of this that have difficulty reconciling...

(I have tried to find stats on this, but different types of multiple shootings stats tend to be added to one another so it is difficult to pin down the specific Columbine type "Mass Shootings" that are not otherwise associated with other criminal activity (Robbery/gangs/etc)

Sooooo.

A) These incidents are common because they seem to happen a couple of dozen times each year or so...

B) These incidents are rare Because (In a country with 350 million population, woeful mental health services with openly psychotic nutters wandering the streets, where gun ownership comfortably exceeds smart phone ownership and where Gun shops outnumber McDonald burger shops Four to One, ) they ONLY seem to happen a couple of dozen times a year or so...

 

[Rroff]

You really don’t understand what people are saying do you?? No one is saying take away your beloved guns people just want stricter gun laws so that mentally ill people or people that are known to be a danger do not get their hands on guns to cause mass killings.

That isn't entirely true - fair few posting here and a good number in the anti-gun lobby, etc. just want to see guns gone - get rid of guns = problem solved as black and white as that.

There is another aspect of this that have difficulty reconciling...

(I have tried to find stats on this, but different types of multiple shootings stats tend to be added to one another so it is difficult to pin down the specific Columbine type "Mass Shootings" that are not otherwise associated with other criminal activity (Robbery/gangs/etc)

Sooooo.

A) These incidents are common because they seem to happen a couple of dozen times each year or so...

B) These incidents are rare Because (In a country with 350 million population, woeful mental health services with openly psychotic nutters wandering the streets, where gun ownership comfortably exceeds smart phone ownership and where Gun shops outnumber McDonald burger shops Four to One, ) they ONLY seem to happen a couple of dozen times a year or so...

Personally I look at it relative to other countries - compared to here or even other countries with fairly liberal firearms laws the US has far more frequent incidents of mass shootings never mind the frequency of school shootings relative to other countries. Your post tends to highlight though that it isn't the gun that is the problem but something else is fundamentally broken.