Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)

[tintin82]

Hi Guys,
A quick question that hopefully you can answer for me. I have just bought my first shares, to add to my load of funds.

I bought shares in the CO-OP bank, however am confused as to what exchange this is listed under as I cant see it in the FTSE All share.

Also, the share name is 'CO-OPERATIVE BANK PLC 9.25% NON-CUM IRRD PRF'

Can someone break all that jargon down? What's does the 9.25% mean and the rest?

Thanks for the help!

 

[silversurfer]

Not shares but I think you have a bond there. CO-Op is not a public listed company, I believe they are still mutual legally at least

CO-OP got knocked sideways recently by the regulator, I think they are giving out over 10% on their debt. In a accounting basis you are above share holders.

9.25% NON-CUM IRRD PRF

PRF would be preference share I think, sort of a bond but very low rank and not guaranteed to pay.
face yield, whats the price you bought at. Below 100 raises it
cumulative is the bond always pays eventually.
irrd


Here is bonds (which ftse does deal) http://www.selftrade.co.uk/market/gilts-bonds/bonds.php?page=3
You might be in the PIB section http://www.selftrade.co.uk/market/uk-shares/pibs.php

Im told the smart way to buy banks was via pibs because they are or were paying very nice even when laws banned share divs.

here it is - http://www.londonstockexchange.com/...summary.html?fourWayKey=GB0002224516GBGBXSSQ3
CPBB

Folks, may I ask, are you all trading on ISA/Trading accounts or are you spreadbetting?

SB and normal shares, investment trusts and SIPP unit trusts

 

[silversurfer]

Not advice but a look at the tea leaves for Ocodo. I dont want them anyway but my rough view from chart only would be look again nearer to 150p
Robbie Burns has shorted them many times but not this year

Spoiler

Spoiler

Macd bars are lower with price higher, vice versa would show underlying confidence
OBV shows volume is generally higher in weeks the price rose

150p is a fair downside target and thats near this years positive trend ie. possible buy

Spoiler

and same chart but daily prices only

I sold BAE systems yesterday which Ive been buying since 2009. It rose today but I was just speculating they may top out. They are a good hold generally.
I hold a FTSE tracker anyway so I figure big stocks are fair game for me to sell off

SEA owns 20% of LOGP who might be doing ok. Almost all the SEA value is their holding and some cash. I wonder if they are worth having, I sold them a year ago at profit so a rebuy?

KAZ is spinning its wheels doing donuts
ABG I should never have bought
POG I was right to sell, gold got weaker and is very unpopular
Lloyds I sold some, I'll raise stoploss but I think it can keep going up so long as everyone in markets are cheerful

CO-OP

 

[isonomicjedi]

KAZ is spinning its wheels doing donuts

Yeah The gossip is that the takeover participants of ENRC (KAZ owns 26%) will ask for an extension before declaring whether they are making an offer or not.

I'm a bit sick to see British Land (BLND) move higher again today. My sell at 588p looks a bit stupid now.

Gulf Keystone Petroleum (GKP) is looking better than I hoped already with larger concerns voicing ambitions, tie-ups, take-over-speculation in the region.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

Well looks like I sold the Ocado shares a bit too soon.

I sold once Waitrose mentioned suing.

This morning the share price skyrocketed again because of the deal with Morrison.

 

[deadlyfredly]

Lloyds looking very positive imo, I bought some last week @ 57 and toped up today @62.

They're returning to profit and I think HMG will offer buy back in the first instance or try to place the shares with an institution. It makes no sense for HMG to flood the market and push the price below their initial purchase price. Alternatively I can see them selling 1% a month or 10% a year on an ongoing basis, drip feeding the market, as long as the bank stays stable this shouldn't force too much downward pressure on the price, esp if the profitability of the company keeps increasing (and lets not forget the TSB IPO).

For the negative case, the bank isn't Basel III compliant as far as I am aware, so dividends could be a long way off yet, and the Euro still has more pain to give yet along with other "nasties" like LIBOR or PPI that may not be exposed yet.

Whilst cognisant of the downside risks, I'm pretty bullish

 

[silversurfer]

I guess Morrison tie up shows demand for their service product. Very good volume, up nearly a third at one point.
I dont think you should kick yourself if you made a profit, selling at the top is a bit of a myth for most of us. Mostly Ive learnt to buy and sell in parts not all at once if possible.

Also depends what you buy now instead of OCDO. When I sold BB to buy SL, it looked like I screwed up because BB price kept going up. But they went to zero so imo taking profits is never regretful.
SL was a dirt cheap forced flotation, BB was overrated, over-anticipated

while that of Morrisons added almost 2%.
"The agreement will enable Morrisons to enter the online grocery market quickly with a profitable business model," Morrisons said in a statement.

I think Questor mentioned buying Morrisons. Its one idea to buy the partner in a deal, sometimes can be clever and/or safer.
Certainly MRW pay 4% yield, I like that at 10 PE. Just went exdiv


BP has some negative news right now, but they appear to be a solid hold anyway

PCT (tech) I was just pointing out to a long term holder has a rising wedge which can be very negative.
Every peak price is not really gaining anything. Eventually a lot of investors sell out from having seen no real gains, is the idea


My idea on GKP is now is nothing special. I hope it spins up wildly like OCDO because I own a bit but Im not chasing it or adding any.

Volume is good but not brilliant, I dont expect it to exceed 200. If we're speculating on buying the bottom, I dont think its done it yet.
Probably like BP it has to clear a lot of the negatives before it can power ahead, barring the worst its fairly obvious it will be a lot higher one day

It makes no sense for HMG to flood the market and push the price below their initial purchase price.

Instead of a div, Lloyds could buy shares back from government. I think thats allowed and they are able.
Without a white knight, it'll take a while to buy them all back.
The other idea is gov gives away/IPO on RBS and Lloyds before election

 

[deadlyfredly]

Instead of a div, Lloyds could buy shares back from government. I think thats allowed and they are able.
Without a white knight, it'll take a while to buy them all back.
The other idea is gov gives away/IPO on RBS and Lloyds before election

Giving the shares away would be too difficult - how do you decide who gets them and how many, without people moaning "it's unfair"? It'll be too hard to do and give away cheap political points to Labour. If you give them to taxpayers, non taxpaying voters will cry foul and "the rich are helping themselves to our money". If you give them to voters, not every voter pays tax or is even a British national.

Placing them directly with either Lloyds, on an ongoing basis to be cancelled (my preferred option, it'll take some time but is the fairest solution all round), or to another institution would have the added benefit of giving the Govt a hoard of cash to splash just before the next election and is, imo the most likely course of events. This would also allow Govt to spread the message that Lloyds, by funding new hosiptals, schools etc, are paying for their "crime", especially if they can keep the price so the Govt stays in profit. People will still moan though.

 

[isonomicjedi]

Not looking good for Kazakhmys (KAZ) as ENRC just dropped 10% awaiting RNS of buyout


EDIT

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-17/enrc-founders-said-to-detail-offer-below-300-pence-in-bid-letter.html

 

[isonomicjedi]

Further Update on KAZ & ENRC

Update from the Independent Committee of the Board of
Eurasian Natural Resources Corporation PLC (the "Company" or "ENRC")

Statement regarding request for Rule 2.6 Extension and Indicative Proposal

The Independent Committee of the Board of ENRC (the "Independent Committee"), consisting solely of independent non-executive directors of the Company, received a conditional, indicative proposal (the "Proposal") on 16th May 2013 from the consortium consisting of Mr Chodiev, Mr Ibragimov, Mr Machkevitch and the Committee of the State Property and Privatisation of the Ministry of Finance of the Republic of Kazakhstan (acting on behalf of the Government of the Republic of Kazakhstan) and JSC Sovereign Wealth Fund "Samruk-Kazyna" (together, the "Consortium") in relation to a potential offer to acquire all of the issued and to be issued share capital of ENRC not already held by the Consortium.

The Independent Committee believes that the Proposal materially undervalues ENRC.

The Independent Committee requested the Panel on Takeovers and Mergers ("The Panel") to extend the deadline set under Rule 2.6 of the City Code on Takeovers and Mergers (the "Code") to Monday 3rd June 2013 at 5pm BST, which the Panel has consented to. By such time, the Consortium must either announce a firm intention to make an offer for the Company in accordance with the Code or announce that they do not intend to make an offer.

The extension will allow the Consortium sufficient time to submit a revised proposal that may be capable of being recommended by the Independent Committee to ENRC's minority shareholders. There can be no certainty that an offer will be made nor as to the terms on which any offer might be made.

The Chairman of the Independent Committee, Dr Mohsen Khalil, said: "The primary role of the Independent Committee is to safeguard the interests of all minority shareholders and ensure that their rights are properly protected."

He added, "We believe the current proposal materially undervalues ENRC, and we will use the extension to seek an improved and formal proposal. The Independent Committee is committed to serving the best interests of minority shareholders through a professional, transparent and rigorous process, which incorporates the highest standards and principles of independence and integrity."

A further update will be provided as appropriate.

 

[BennyC]

Does anyone have any thoughts on MML? Can't quite remember my holding but they seem to have tanked quite considerably (in addition to the large drop in gold recently) but it baffles considering their revised output (down from 400k ounces to 200k ounces) is still going to generate a healthy profit based on their costs and POG circa 1000-1400.

 

[silversurfer]

The price of Medusa shares is back to 2009 September. The gold price isnt close to that, so maybe they are a 'bargain'
Im going to look, thanks for mentioning them. I post any conclusions later within a spoiler tag
Generally I'd want to know if they have debt, are they in an increasingly impoverished unstable country a bit like Egypt and CEY maybe

Halving production outlook sounds familiar though, depends why this is happening as well

Spoiler

I dont have a big view, lacking some data but theres a good chance the price is bottom of expectations (or price channel)
Macd shows less negative then the sell off post peak 2011, as price is lower thats a nice nod to possible underlying strength. I'll buy a bit

Gold itself Im looking for a double bottom above 1352, its likely others are too. An actual move needs more finesse - downside target is 2009 highs

Not good - http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphjennings/2013/05/21/why-taiwan-wont-let-the-philippines-off-easy/

 

[BennyC]

No worries, this might be of interest:

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/-1785629.htm

The only thing I know of is some tax/legislation changes. Would value your opinion on them. Down quite a bit on them at the moment but as you say they're at a 3/4 year low.

 

[Ransom]

Just become intersted in all this myself, going too try an read threw all 200 pages of this thread hoping too gleam a glimmer of info an help

wish me luck

 

[smokedog]

Today sucks...was going to top-up my Caza holdings yesterday but because of the weak Chinese data I held off. Caza up almost 50% today

 

[smokedog]

Double post

 

[isonomicjedi]

Just had a quick look at Imagination Technologies (IMG) and reckon there is still room for the mini-upswing to continue (at least until closer to FY Results 19th June)

9 day EMA is crossing the 12 Day and both are converging towards the 20 Day.

MACD crossed the signal line 10 days ago but they are still diverging and Histogram still positive.

Will take a short-term position on this in the morning I think.

 

[Cavallino]

Nice analysis I-jedi. And agreed on short term. May get some of that action myself.

Imagination for the last 12 months or so. (Red = EMA 20, Blue = EMA 50, Brown = EMA 100).

Spoiler

 

[silversurfer]

Blue ema would be close to 200 day average which is like a rule to some, ie. buy when its rising.


Doesnt Apple command IMG profits in the main. I would just buy Apple, Im biased I think they are cheap at 10PE where IMG is 47 which is fine if they still growing, I dont know the detail.
CREE I liked upto 100 PE because they got outstanding product potential but even then I sold and they kept rising, so Im a sucker for the unpopular

Spoiler

I like IMG chart because its so simple but I dont think its actually saying buy and if I had to I'd want 280 and I'd wuss out and sell at 400 probably

Short term its at gap window and it may gap fill but technicals < fundamentals. It fell May 2nd on profit warning apparently, old phrase these come in threes. On the plus side they supply both samsung and apple. A hold above 330 is a good base to build on.

Caza up almost 50% today

They got a long way to recover. I took some junior oils fund before but otherwise I just hope they keep gaining, often I get a big rise and it dont hold


Just a hopeful guess but Im putting in all copper stocks as my entry to stockchallenge on the basis copper beat its longer term fall. The recent low was a good foundation so looking for evidence of that to be true

 

[isonomicjedi]

The IMG update in May was that there had been a delay in signing some licencing agreements but the market seems to agree that it was oversold at that point.

It may a little late to buy in but it looks good enough for a small wager.

I'm still looking good with my Gulf Keystone Petroleum (GKP) up 19% so far.

The one stock I own that is disappointing me is Essar Energy (ESSR).
Although I bought it @124p (now 144p) I was expecting a lot more from it according to my notes. (Though I failed to note the reason I bought) LOL

Haven't followed it very closely so need to read back up and investigate.