Transgender MTF picked for Olympics weightlifting

Nitefly said:
There seems to be much agony in the world caused by strict adherence to ideas. Better to be flexible where we can, I think.
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Just an off-hand comment as the context is important but I'd argue that applying this principle broadly to fundamentals sacrifices clarity and proven historical normality for the potential of complete chaos in society.
 
FirebarUK said:
Just an off-hand comment as the context is important but I'd argue that applying this principle broadly to fundamentals sacrifices clarity and proven historical normality for the potential of complete chaos in society.
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Applying any principle to the point of absurdity does cause absurdity, yes.

For what it’s worth, I think absurdity is reached in things like the JK Rowling ‘controversy’. I think it is absurd to avoid using the phrase ‘women’ when discussing ‘people who menstruate’.

My view in that is absorbed by the principle I proposed. If we are to accommodate the wishes of trans people into our everyday language, which seems fair and I’m willing to do, then there also needs to be flexibility the other way and allow the use of everyday language that applies for the vast majority of the population.

Seems fair to me.
 
Somnambulist said:
And yet Li Wenwen's best lifts in the 10th and heaviest female category are soundly beaten by lifts in the 3rd lowest men's 67kg category where competitors are literally less than half her size.
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Its not even an argument at this point. Anyone who has even a rudimentary understanding of biology knows that women are far weaker than men physically and anyone who has gone through puberty as a male will have a considerable advantage as a woman.

There is a cyclist who was a middle of the road (pardon the pun) cyclist until their transition and now is suddenly an elite woman cyclist. Its literally staring you in the face. Its like when a decent athlete suddenly goes from OK to world class in a few years and packs on 20lbs of lean muscle. Perhaps they just developed in their mid twenties or perhaps they started doping...

I mean, we don't even have mixed competition in sports that are 99% skill based. Why are there no world class snooker or darts players that are women.

Its become a crime to suggest that men and women are biologically different and its become political to suggest that people have different talents based on their sex or abilities. Its all a bit mad really and its not in the slightest bit good for society.
 
Yes it's why testosterone levels are by themselves an insufficient marker for participation - it's the lifetime of physiological adaptations your sex hormones have upon your sexed body:

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Nitefly said:
To be masculine is to have attributes that are typically male and the be feminine is to have attributes that are typically female.

If you can have masculine women and feminine men, which I presume you agree with, then it logically follows that being masculine and feminine is not strictly linked with being biologically male or female. They are characteristics. Likewise, gender is the allocation of one’s self to a set of characteristics.

Discussions around gender typically involve a person feeling more inherently associated with one set of characteristics than another. If anyone wants to do that…. So what? It has no bearing on me whatsoever and if they are someone who does then go on to exhibit characteristics of their chosen gender then in some ways it makes more sense than insisting on calling them the gender typically associated with their biological sex.

In my mind and conscious, I know clear as day that I am a man. I don’t really think I have the right to deny a female calling him/her-self a man if that is likewise what she thinks and feels to be appropriate for her.

There seems to be much agony in the world caused by strict adherence to ideas. Better to be flexible where we can, I think.
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No you can’t have feminine men or masculine women. They’re paradoxical. Everything that you deem feminine or masculine outside of biology is man made and socio-cultural. All you have to do is look in different peoples throughout the world to see that what is deemed masculine or feminine changes based on culture. What doesn’t change is biology. So if you think being a ‘woman’ is wearing a skirt and make up and naming yourself after a flower. Then you’re a fool.

Transgender ‘women’ are trying to be what society thinks women ought to be. But they will never be what women are.

Because the ‘ought’ is arbitrary and the ‘is’ is immutable.

Edit:
Also on your point of flexibility. I have absolutely no problem with a male doing the arbitrary things that are deemed feminine, because they are arbitrary. So if you want to wear a skirt, makeup and call yourself Daisy I have 0 problem with that. However I would have problem with you saying you are a woman. It’s a falsehood, an impossibility, it is not true.

A man doing the arbitrary things that society deems are feminine doesn’t make you a woman. It makes you a man who doesn’t care for social norms.

(I use the example most of the time of man to woman because it’s easier as a man to envisage, of course my argument goes both ways)
 
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Ayahuasca said:
Sure you do, lots of men assume they do due to the reasons you've mentioned and then test within normal range. You're self-diagnosing just as you've done with other things. Proper pity party.
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Reminds me of all the people who were "absolutely certain" they'd had COVID and then tested negative for antibodies. It's very interesting how we can misdiagnose ourselves, not just physically but psychologically.
 
Lysander said:
Reminds me of all the people who were "absolutely certain" they'd had COVID and then tested negative for antibodies. It's very interesting how we can misdiagnose ourselves, not just physically but psychologically.
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Its funny, all my self diagnostics so far that were later tested were 100% correct.

I don't however 'definitely have low T', I've simply realized it could be a possibility but I'm not keen on spending months chasing it up.

I will however phone my GP practice at some point and ask if my testosterone levels have previously been checked during routine blood tests, or ask in my next appointment which is actually meant to be for other stuff.
 
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