Trying to pull the statue of Saddam down

elbows · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:21

OK so now everyone thinks they know how Iraqi's will feel?

Well done for simplifying everything to the usual 2 sided argument. War vs No War, and of course now Baghdad has fallen its a complete vindication of the way the war was handled diplomatically and every horrible death that happened? Oh and now Iraq is liberated and free and they will all live happily ever after I suppose.

Well, I have no respect for such a simplistic idea of how the world works.

Am I not allowed to have very mixed feelings about the whole business? For sure I am as happy as all the pro-war people that the Saddam regime has been ended, but that doesnt wipe away all the other stuff that has happened, and will happen in the future. It doesnt change what I think motivated the war one bit, it doesnt answer any questions about how the country will be run in the future.

And to those who seek to label anti-war people as career protesters and use rediculously oversimplistic logic to say "well something good has come out of the war so it must have been worth it" whilst your looking at the whole thing on television and ignoring the other side, well I say this is madness. Suddenly now the pro-war people are the ones who care about Iraqi's and the anti-war people are just in it for themselves? Ha ha ha what stupid doublethink.

Over Clocker · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:23

Originally posted by Yossarian
Refering to me perhaps? Anyhow, I quite agree! It seems to happen with weapons inspection reports too if you remember.

Not really, seeing as it was the Pentagon that dismissed claims from the media we had found chemical weapons!!

You only have to look at the joy in the faces of the Iraqi's when the statue fell.

At the end of the day, 99% of those people who demonstrated againt the war in London had no idea what was really going on in Iraq, whereas 100% of those Iraqi's in the square today know what happened.

Sm0akes · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:23

Originally posted by Over Clocker
Why were the Iraqi's waving the US Flag in the air and kissing and giving flowers to the US Soldiers then?? Must be really unhappy!

Oh, and this Iraqi on the BBC is the one that just said he feels like he has been let out of Prison.

Of course they are happy, they have just been liberated. I was pointing out that once again Americans take things one step too far. I suspect that Arabic TV stations will make a big thing of the American flag over Saddams head and will only serve to increase hatred of Americans which is already at new highs.

Over Clocker · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:25

Originally posted by elbows
.........................

Suddenly now the pro-war people are the ones who care about Iraqi's and the anti-war people are just in it for themselves? Ha ha ha what stupid doublethink.

If you look back through all the old war threads, you will see that this has always been the case of the pro war side, there is nothing sudden about it at all!!

theleg · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:26

We can see how the Iraqis feel elbows...This one square today, tommorrow we will see something greater IMO.

Nobody has said that things will be perfect for the Iraqis now, but one thing im personally sure of, they are a hell of a lot better off now than they were when Saddam was in full power.

The look on the faces of the men in that crowd told me that everything that has been done has been worth it. Whether you think the same is your own choice.

MindYerBeak · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:26

Originally posted by Over Clocker
Its truly amazing how people try and bend the news stories to match their own views!!

Anyone can see the Iraqi's are happy with this, even the Arabic TV Channels are trying it hard to try and fault this afternoon.

Yet still we have people saying this is all wrong etc etc.

It takes a long time for word to get around when you have no tele or radio. Also, the road became closed after a few minutes to the square, there were many many thousands on the ajoining streets.

Directly behind the statue are the Secret Police hotels. Another reason why Iraqis are reluctant to enter the area.

It's reminiscent, I feel, of the Romans pulling down statues when annoyed. A loss to history when you come to think of it.

elbows · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:26

Originally posted by Over Clocker
At the end of the day, 99% of those people who demonstrated againt the war in London had no idea what was really going on in Iraq, whereas 100% of those Iraqi's in the square today know what happened.

Rubbish if you ask me, total trash. The horrors of Saddams regime have been well known by just about everybody in the West for 15 years now.

Why is it so hard to understand that just because people may have been against war they werent pro saddam?

elbows · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:28

I give up, it seems people either get it or they dont, Im wasting my breath.

Pants · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:28

Originally posted by elbows
blah blah... Suddenly now the pro-war people are the ones who care about Iraqi's and the anti-war people are just in it for themselves? Ha ha ha what stupid doublethink.

ermmm

I was always pro-war because i wanted saddam out therefore free iraqis...

I'm proborably not the only one either...

I give up, it seems people either get it or they dont, Im wasting my breath.

or... we don't agree with you. Yes, give up, you are wasting your breath.

Bony Maloney · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:29

Originally posted by Over Clocker
Not really, seeing as it was the Pentagon that dismissed claims from the media we had found chemical weapons!!

You only have to look at the joy in the faces of the Iraqi's when the statue fell.

At the end of the day, 99% of those people who demonstrated againt the war in London had no idea what was really going on in Iraq, whereas 100% of those Iraqi's in the square today know what happened.

They know what happened today OC, Hussain gone fantastic, what does tommorrow bring and the future of Iraq and the Middle east on whole, these unfortunately cannot be answered only speculated. The future for the people of Iraq is still uncertain, and the motives for this war, for now and long term is still questionable. This is a small and apparrently wonderful piece of the picture, and that is fantastic for the people of Iraq, for today.

Over Clocker · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:30

Originally posted by elbows
Rubbish if you ask me, total trash. The horrors of Saddams regime have been well known by just about everybody in the West for 15 years now.

Why is it so hard to understand that just because people may have been against war they werent pro saddam?

How is that total trash :rolleyes:

I was stating that probably 99% of those protesting in london have never lived in Iraq, and therefore dont have all the life bearing to make full judgement, unlike the Iraqi's, who do live there, and therefore do have a full set of thoughts to make judgement.

You can think what you like tbh, but you can't dispute what the faces of the Iraqi's shows, their views, are the only opnes which matter at the end of the day.

elbows · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:31

OK well rather than get annoyed any more Ive decided to just get on with looking on the bright side for now and I am really glad Saddams regime is gone

I'll stop supposing to know what the pro-war people are thinking if people will stop simplifying what anti-war peoples motives and feelings were/are

elbows · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:32

Originally posted by Over Clocker
How is that total trash

Becuase everyone I know who is anti-war was well aware that Saddam being gone would be good, and that most Iraqis would welcome this outcome.

endeavour · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:32

Very memorable occasion, glad to see the Iraqis finally feeling free in their own country

.

SDK^ · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:34

Sounds like an interesting afternoon in Baghdad, shame i'm at work and can't see the action

Sm0akes · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:35

Originally posted by elbows
Becuase everyone I know who is anti-war was well aware that Saddam being gone would be good, and that most Iraqis would welcome this outcome.

What were there reasons for being anti-war if they knew that lots of civilians die regularly under the Saddam regime which pretty much negates the arguement of civilian casualties?

Over Clocker · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:36

MindYerBeak · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:36

The anti war brigade were proved wrong when the Iraqis started dancing in the streets. Now they'll revert to the "Wait till afterwards" argument. I confidently predict they'll be proved wrong yet again and that Iraq will have a bright and democratic future to look forward to. If not, I'll eat me Donnie hat.

Pants · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:37

Will other middle east countries and the rest of iraq be shown these pictures of iraqis celabrating or will it be somehow twisted?

I can't see how these pictures could be twisted to anti UK/USA?

rare · 9 Apr 2003 at 16:38

Sm0akes those kind of comments annoy the hell out of me.

Those soldiers have been fighting for weeks, and probably know soldiers who have been injured or perhaps even killed because of this.

In the heat of the moment these young US marines put their flag over saddams face, only to replace it with the Irai flag.

If it wasnt for those Marines that statue would still be there.

There is no need to swear and call the "Americans" (why generalise?) arogant and stupid.