Tuition fees

[hellarda]

Contact hours and quality of tuition are a factor of the institution itself, though, and have very little to do with the proportion of fees contributed by the student. If you choose a well-accredited course at a good University, with relevant material, taught by highly qualified and engaged academic staff, you'll see the benefits of an academic education.

If you choose a nonsense course at a less reputable establishment purely because you like the idea of three years of drinking culture, well then your expectations shouldn't be high!

(I don't know to which Uni or course you're going, of course - just illustrating.)

True, however the fact we are paying triple what previous students are paying should warrant some improvement in tuition/facilities at least.

I am hopefully going to bath to study Electronic Engineering

 

[Judgeneo]

You haven't taken into account inflation, not sure how much this will chnage the calculations though, as the 19k doesn't chnage with inflation. So for the second half of the loan you will be paying far more.
1992 average weekly pay £345
2012 average weekly pay £509

To many decades of people being taught they can do anything, which is frankly wrong. And to many crap universities and crap degrees.
Then lib dem supports forgetting that lib dems are not solely in power and can't stick to their manifesto.

Perosnally I think it should be two tiered, good courses that its decided the country needs, should be free to the top academic people. Everyone else on a system like what's currently in place.

I was using this calculator: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-repay#tool

Your salary increases by RPI+2% (so 5%) each year - our estimate of long-term graduate wage inflation. Salary jumps, or time off work, will affect your debt-free date.

So it does provide an estimate of wage increases. I would expect tuition fess to rise over time as they did under the previous plan, so the repayment time scale should be pretty accurate going forward.

I think it's a bit naive to think that in a decades or two time, when there is this looming amount of unpaid Student Loans to be written off, that they won't then change the rules - extending the payment period would be one option.

Becoming indistinguishable from a graduate tax for many.


I'm not opposed to students paying more for their degrees, but it to me the current plan seems only marginally better than the old for the government, and far worse for the students.

 

[AJK]

True, however the fact we are paying triple what previous students are paying should warrant some improvement in tuition/facilities at least.

But the Universities aren't seeing that triple income, as government funding is decreasing at the same time. I agree with your point in principle though - students in 2013 aren't getting three times the value as students in 2006, or nine times the value as those in 2000. I can't imagine going to Uni now!

I am hopefully going to Bath to study Electronic Engineering

Well Bath's alright I suppose Enjoy it, Bath's a great place and a good Uni!

 

[Glaucus]

I was using this calculator: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-repay#tool



So it does provide an estimate of wage increases. I would expect tuition fess to rise over time as they did under the previous plan, so the repayment time scale should be pretty accurate going forward.



.

Didn't know that, it says the threshold increase every year of the new loans.
However it doesn't take into account pay rises(above a small amount, which over the longterm I bet most people will beat)/permotions, which most people willl have many, over the 25years. I would be surprised if people had loads of debt left at the cut of point, but I suppose time will tell.

 

[Tunney]

Thats the most confusing part of it all. Only high earners will be able to pay it off in less than 25 years. After that 25 years the government writes it off as they do today.

The government doesn't care whether it's paid back in full or not. They're selling the debt to commercial companies.

 

[AndrewNR]

Also, I understand the *****s and mortar universities fees rising, but the OU ballooned their yearly fees to nearly £6k as well. Didn't think distance learning would have come under the ruling.

Luckily I started my OU degree before the hike and continue paying <£500 a module, so approximately £6k in total.

I wouldn't fancy paying about £12k for essentially some books and the ability to email a tutor.

 

[Mr. Pickle]

You are extremely dumb to think that the Government won't just sell the debt to a private company to the highest bidder.

At which point they will change all the terms and they will not be favourable

 

[AndrewNR]

A £40k job will net a £2k repayment per year. You will notice it

I doubt <£200 a month will hurt that much when you're bringing home about £2500 net. Get real.

 

[RDM]

I thought it amusing that you had students protesting the Governments plans whilst supporting the NUS idea of a graduate tax. Limited liability vs unlimited liability.

 

[elmarko]

Tuition fee's are undesirable because they impact further on social mobility (which is already terrible in the UK).

It's not that hard to understand why people would be upset at this.

Not everybody has the benefit of rich parents who are able to financially assist them into getting into further education, as a society it damages all of us if some of our greatest minds are put off higher learning to avoid getting into debt.

As a nation we pay for many things, educating the next generation isn't simply a cost - it's an investment for the future - as a supporter in part (preferable to what we have now) of meritocratic values I don't believe tuition fee's are a positive influence to this goal.

 

[RDM]

Tuition fee's are undesirable because they impact further on social mobility (which is already terrible in the UK).

Except of course it doesn't, poor education about what tuition fees mean impacts social mobility.

It's not that hard to understand why people would be upset at this.

Not everybody has the benefit of rich parents who are able to financially assist them into getting into further education, as a society it damages all of us if some of our greatest minds are put off higher learning to avoid getting into debt.

Which is why there is funding for all students regardless of background as you pay nothing up front, only pay back when you can afford to and cannot default on the debt at all.

 

[Theophany]

A £40k job will net a £2k repayment per year. You will notice it

Just checked my P60 from last year and I was surprised at how much I'd repaid last year. I honestly hadn't noticed. It's considerably less than my Income Tax and NI contributions. In fact, it's less than my annual commuting cost. I work on the basis that without my degree, I'd be earning substantially less than my current salary minus the annual cost of my student loan repayments and, in all likelihood, have much fewer career prospects.

In summary, if you notice it I think it's fair to say you either picked the wrong degree or wrong life choice.

 

[AJK]

I work on the basis that without my degree, I'd be earning substantially less than my current salary minus the annual cost of my student loan repayments and, in all likelihood, have much fewer career prospects.

That's the theory!

In summary, if you notice it I think it's fair to say you either picked the wrong degree or wrong life choice.

Nobody on PAYE should really "notice" the repayments at all, since they kick in as soon as you reach the threshold - you'll never actually have the money, so you shouldn't notice it to be missing. Once it's fully repaid you get a nice little "pay rise"!

 

[Glaucus]

In summary, if you notice it I think it's fair to say you either picked the wrong degree or wrong life choice.

That covers a lot of people, I certainly notice it. It's a large chuck gone, for no reason, other than three years of fun. It makes things tighter than it should be. Can't wait for it to be paid off, sometime next tax year, or I might try and pay the extra off and finish at the end of this tax year.

 

[elmarko]

Except of course it doesn't, poor education about what tuition fees mean impacts social mobility.

Which is why there is funding for all students regardless of background as you pay nothing up front, only pay back when you can afford to and cannot default on the debt at all.

I said it would put people off due to saddling them with debt, regardless as to if they may/may have to or be able to pay it back, some people simply don't want to get into large amounts of debt.

I do agree that the public perception needs to change on the matter (to encourage those put off to apply) - but I don't think in the grand scheme of things is a net positive move.

More-so when it's being pushed through & supported by a generation who already got a free ride.

 

[Mr Jack]

True, however the fact we are paying triple what previous students are paying should warrant some improvement in tuition/facilities at least.

The Universities aren't getting any more money out of this. They cut the block grant when they raised tuition fees.

 

[Castiel]

Except of course it doesn't, poor education about what tuition fees mean impacts social mobility.

Precisely. Tuition Fees do not impact social mobility, if anything they enable social mobility by removing the ability to pay from the point of service to the point of affordability.

People not understanding how the system works is what impacts social mobility, as you say.

 

[Castiel]

I said it would put people off due to saddling them with debt, regardless as to if they may/may have to or be able to pay it back, some people simply don't want to get into large amounts of debt.

So they will never buy a car, own a house, or any number of other things that would require a debt of some description?

The fact is that without such funding schemes there would be a severe impact on social mobility as University places would be limited and potentially it would effectively price out the poorest in society as Universities seek other avenues of funding or cut availability.

More-so when it's being pushed through & supported by a generation who already got a free ride.

A generation where the ability of actually going to University was limited in the first place. Today you have far more chance of getting a university place and actually being able to afford to go than the generation you are referring to....

In an ideal situation, ALL education would be free..unfortunately greater demand for University places has increased costs and so there is a choice to be made, fewer places or increased contributions, which would you prefer?

 

[Theophany]

That covers a lot of people, I certainly notice it. It's a large chuck gone, for no reason, other than three years of fun. It makes things tighter than it should be. Can't wait for it to be paid off, sometime next tax year, or I might try and pay the extra off and finish at the end of this tax year.

But do you notice it because you actively look for it each month and monitor how much you still owe the SLC? Having never taken the optional one year payment holiday, I can't say I've ever 'noticed' because I've never had a payslip that didn't feature the deduction. I notice my car payments each month because they're taken from my net salary and every now and then I'll think 'if I chop in the car I could reduce those payments.' Honestly, gross pay deductions don't even register beyond the odd 'I pay xyz in tax every year and what do I get for it?' rant each year when I get my P60.

Maybe that's just my sunny demeanour and abundance mentality! (yeah, right)

 

[Glaucus]

I notice it, as it's a big chunk out of the pay packet. Which limits what money you have.
By the time you've taken into essential costs, bills, rent etc. then that is a massive % of disposable income to lose.
Tax you have no choice so it's not even remotely comparable.
And yes I chopped in the car and many other expenditures.

It's the difference between comfortably affording mortgage repayments and it being a bit on the tight side.