Turkey Grand Prix 2010, Istanbul Park - Race 7/19

Quite disapointed with all the Seb hating going on here. They are both racing drivers pushing things to the limit. Both deserved a rollicking and being made to watch the video of Lewis and Jenson side by side for the next two weeks.

Think the aussie pics are just rude. It made for a good race and its a shame for Mark and Seb and good to see Jenson scoring more than we would have before the crash.
 
Think its the way Seb has handled the situation... he looks to be the most at fault but he is the one waving his finger implying mark is the crazy one and then being cuddled up on the pit wall...
Mark handled the whole situation better.

Don't see him going to Ferrari and playing second fiddle to Alonso however! Silver Arrows the place to be? If Hammy gets a bit too big for his boots...
 
EddScott said:
Quite disapointed with all the Seb hating going on here. They are both racing drivers pushing things to the limit. Both deserved a rollicking and being made to watch the video of Lewis and Jenson side by side for the next two weeks.

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most of the criticism for vettel is because of his reactions after, he caused a crash and then acts like a silly little brat afterwards stomping off and calling mark crazy.

''If you watch it on the TV, you can see what happened. I'm not in the happiest of moods. I was on the inside going into the corner. I was there, I was ahead and focusing on the braking point and then we touched. Mark's car hit my rear right wheel and I went off - there's not much more to say.''

if he didnt act like such a douche after the race it would be so much of an issue and its been compounded by the red bull management also behaving badly.
 
Christo said:
In this case however Id say the blame rests on both their shoulders, Vettel was ahead, Webber should have given way, however Vettel shouldnt have turned right so suddenly.
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I think that both drivers are equally to blame. Its a racing incident.

I don't understand why so many of you are calling Vettel names. He is a racer. Yes he was over-exhubarant. He tried a 50-50 move and he came off worse.

No need for all the name calling.
 
pulling right and straight into another car going in a straight line isnt a 50/50 move, its a 'iam bored of this race now so iam going to retire early' move.

to then accuse the guy you just hit of hitting your rear wheel and playing the moody innocent is the reason behind much of the discontent.
 
sunama said:
I think that both drivers are equally to blame. Its a racing incident.

I don't understand why so many of you are calling Vettel names. He is a racer. Yes he was over-exhubarant. He tried a 50-50 move and he came off worse.

No need for all the name calling.
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Agreed. Vettel wasn't as vitriolic as I expected him to be afterwards. The worst offender for behaviour was Horner. He was OK until he said the guy moving faster should have been given more room. Too much of an indication that he felt Webber should have moved over more.

As for Webber to Ferrari, I would be surprised considering Alonso will be the number 1 there. Like the talk of Kubica going there. With Alonso there, your going to be number 2.


EDIT - Didn't Vettel take Webber out in his first few races? The one where we saw Vettel upset in the back of the garage and Webber saying something like "this is what you get when you put kids in these cars" :)
 
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not far enough and he definitely didnt have the line for the corner.

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sunama said:
I think that both drivers are equally to blame. Its a racing incident.

I don't understand why so many of you are calling Vettel names. He is a racer. Yes he was over-exhubarant. He tried a 50-50 move and he came off worse.

No need for all the name calling.
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When you deliberately aim your car at another drivers car in the hope that he will yield in a situation or crash that to me is not a 50/50.

If vettel had his legs broken in the following accident, then the Fia might have stopped these sort of tactics.

Vettel is an idiot, quite clearly he had the pace to wait another second and pull across making the corner and not run into webber. Yet he didn't he tried to bully him and he caused an avoidable accident. Quite how the stewards didn't get involved is beyond me.

I want to see drivers do more of what webber did, hold position and have the other car run into them. I'm sick to the back teeth of seeing drivers force another car onto the grass to avoid an accident.

Webber leaves Vettel a car width or a little more. I'd bet if the roles where reversed Vettel would have squeezed Webber on to the grass the minute he tried to come down the side.

Years ago when drivers used to get killed for running into each other they used to actually respect the space of the other car.

Having rules where you can get away with the actions of vettel and webber himself has pulled the chop many times doesn't exactly help over taking or encourage drivers to take a risk.
 
Thomas. PLease. said:
Yep I agree, both as stupid as each other, webber should have yielded, vettel shouldnt have veered right.
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If webber had done that everyone on here would be laughing at webber getting mugged again or yielding a position too easily.

F1 is a no contact sport, what vettel did was cause a situation where the other driver jumps out the way or there is an accident.

Vettel should have been visiting the stewards and I'm confident that had Vettel done that to another driver from a different team he would be starting the next race from the back.
 
sunama said:
I don't understand why so many of you are calling Vettel names. He is a racer. Yes he was over-exhubarant. He tried a 50-50 move and he came off worse.
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Um....sunama, he turned the car into Webber. That's not a 50-50 move. That's an "I'm behind you and I don't think I should be, so I'm going to throw my car at you and you'd better get out of the way" kind of move. It was never going to work.

I like Vettel, I really do. I thought it was fantastic when he won at Monza in the STR, and I love watching him race at the front. But he was so in the wrong this time that it isn't even funny. It was just dumb. And Webber has nothing to apologise for.
 
dannyjo22 said:
If webber had done that everyone on here would be laughing at webber getting mugged again or yielding a position too easily.

F1 is a no contact sport, what vettel did was cause a situation where the other driver jumps out the way or there is an accident.

Vettel should have been visiting the stewards and I'm confident that had Vettel done that to another driver from a different team he would be starting the next race from the back.
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Well to be fair Alonso took Petrov out (seems like he sliced a tyre with rear of his car) in the last few laps , yet as far as Ive seen nothing happened to him at all

I agree though - it certainly should happen
 
the alonso / petrov fight was much more aggressive close racing which caused a genuine incident and cant really be compared, alonso was a bit over exuberant perhaps but nothing too untoward.
 
sunama said:
He was ahead of Webber though.
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as others have said, he wasn't far enough ahead. you cant turn right on a straight and assume that the dude also driving on the straight next to you will also move right.

Simple fact is Vettel was trying to bully Webber into yeilding and it bit him hard. Webber was under no obligation to move over and if it had been another driver trying to pass him we would be celebrating him for not handing his ass to people at the slightest whiff of an overtake. He is trying to be WDC and he held his position. He CANNOT be to blame for NOT driving into Vettel.

After Red Bulls reaction its just cemented my thoughts that Christian Horner is a bit of a snivelling rat and Vettel is a brat. I'm no massive Webber fan, i was delighted when they collided as it allowed Hamilton through, but Webber must feel pooped upon by the team.

Everyone in F1 seems to think it was Vettels fault apart from Vettel and the PTBs at RB. No guessing who they are pinning their hopes on.
 
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FrankJH said:
Well to be fair Alonso took Petrov out (seems like he sliced a tyre with rear of his car) in the last few laps , yet as far as Ive seen nothing happened to him at all
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I don't think Alonso was reckless when he did this. Petrov should've been more careful and I think in future, he will show more respect when racing wheel to wheel with Alonso.

This sort of "respect" used to be shown to the likes of Senna, Mansell and Prost. In 2010, that "respect", which should be given to the top drivers, seems to have been forgotten.

Even Hamilton showed MS "respect", when he overtook him for the first time, earlier this season.
 
Todge said:
He [Webber] CANNOT be to blame for NOT driving into Vettel.
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I am not disagreeing with this. But at the same time, I can't see how Vettel can be blamed entirely for the incident. It was a racing accident, between 2 drivers who both felt they should be in 1st place. They both have to take responsibility for it.

As it happens, Vettel lost ground to Webber in the WDC and I don't see what the fuss is about.

Now if Vettel had blatantly pushed Webber off the track, causing him to retire, then went on to take 25 points - this would be completely out of order.

For crying out loud, Webber took 3rd place and got 15 points more than Vettel. Webber should be ecstatic!
 
If Petrov was a back marker and being lapped then fair enough I would completely agree with the "respect" being given

Alonso was behind him fair and square and racing for position, and due to Alonso not being far enough ahead before cutting back onto the racing line he took another competitor out unfairly

I dont see there being anything different about that than Webber / Vettel issue (apart from it being team mates, both being in the Championship battle)


Of course Vettel is wholly to blame - he made the move, he wasnt fully ahead before trying to cut back across the track onto the racing line, and Webber (even given it was his team mate) had no reason at all to get out of his way when he was always on the racing line, if Webber had crashed into the back of Vettel on the racing line then yes I would agree, but it HAS to be the person making the move that has to be sure he is completely clear (and enough racetrack to make the move stick) - not the responsibility of the person losing the place

Webber really had a solid win under his belt until Vettel intervened - I can really see him being happy about losing "a win" and also losing the ten championship points. Yes it could have been worse, but Mark has lost out just as much (if not more considering the rumoured bad feeling within the team)
 
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I think they were trying to hand vettel the lead I haven't seen it mentioned but vettel pitted a lap or 2 early which allowed him past Hamilton and the is no way redbull would have known if webber would come out infront or behind him

I always thought the deal at red bull was the lead driver gets the first pit stop to stop the leap frog
 
sunama said:
I don't think Alonso was reckless when he did this. Petrov should've been more careful and I think in future, he will show more respect when racing wheel to wheel with Alonso.

This sort of "respect" used to be shown to the likes of Senna, Mansell and Prost. In 2010, that "respect", which should be given to the top drivers, seems to have been forgotten.

Even Hamilton showed MS "respect", when he overtook him for the first time, earlier this season.
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yea the sort of "respect" irvine showed senna :D

respect shouldnt count for anything when racing for position
 
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