Turkey Grand Prix 2010, Istanbul Park - Race 7/19

sunama said:
I am not disagreeing with this. But at the same time, I can't see how Vettel can be blamed entirely for the incident. It was a racing accident, between 2 drivers who both felt they should be in 1st place. They both have to take responsibility for it.

As it happens, Vettel lost ground to Webber in the WDC and I don't see what the fuss is about.

Now if Vettel had blatantly pushed Webber off the track, causing him to retire, then went on to take 25 points - this would be completely out of order.

For crying out loud, Webber took 3rd place and got 15 points more than Vettel. Webber should be ecstatic!
Click to expand...

I agree, Webber should be pleased becuase he is further ahgead in the WDC than he was previously, but RB should be leading both championships handily and now they are not.

I'm not quite sure why anyone would take responsibility for someone driving into them. Thats your no claims gone for a start :p
 
Well i dont know if my perspective might be a little bit different, i was actually in turkey watching this on turkish TV.

I dont know if the turkish TV feed we had was different but it certainly seemed to show more of what happened between Vettel and Webber on track.

From a number of different angles it seemed that Vettel hit the verge of the track, threw up a load of debris and then lost it and veered right across into webber.

It looked like webber had left more than enough track to be honest, and Vettel acting like a complete nob afterwards didnt help his situation.

I dont have a problem with team mates racing, but when neither of them are particularly clean overtakers then its just ridiculous.
 
sunama said:
For crying out loud, Webber took 3rd place and got 15 points more than Vettel. Webber should be ecstatic!
Click to expand...

*sigh*

Tell me sunama, what colour is the sky on your home planet?

Lopéz said:
Yeah, if I'd been leading a GP with my team mate supporting me in 2nd, I'd be ecstatic when he decided to punt me down to third by pulling off a move he couldn't make stick.
Click to expand...

Quite. Thanks to Vettel's incompetence/lack of judgement/petulance (delete as appropriate) Webber has lost a hatful of points. He was leading the title coming into this race, and leads it still, but he deserved more out of it than a third place in a car damaged by his team-mate of all people.

Think on, he was going for his third win on the bounce from three pole positions in a row. How many people have actually done that in F1 over the years? Hell, it's been three years since someone actually took three poles in a row (Massa), never mind winning from pole on each occasion. I know Alonso managed it in '06, and Schumacher must have done it at least once, ditto for Mansell. But Hamilton has never managed it, Button didn't manage it in '09....

Oh, and the last Aussie to get three poles in a row? Jack Brabham, in 1960. Pretty illustrious company for Webber to be keeping.
 
sunama said:
I am not disagreeing with this. But at the same time, I can't see how Vettel can be blamed entirely for the incident. It was a racing accident, between 2 drivers who both felt they should be in 1st place. They both have to take responsibility for it.
Click to expand...

Then by your argument Jerez was also just a racing incident between two drivers who thought they should have first place and Jv should share his portion of the blame?

sunama said:
For crying out loud, Webber took 3rd place and got 15 points more than Vettel. Webber should be ecstatic!
Click to expand...

Speechless tbh.
 
Sounds as if it must have been a good race (which I missed and can't be bothered to watch in full).

Nice to see some actual racing for a change - kudos to Webber, Vettel, Hamilton and Button - come on Massa and Alonso, get with the program :)

I hope that Red Bull and McLaren don't decide to start dictating race results.
 
sunama said:
For crying out loud, Webber took 3rd place and got 15 points more than Vettel. Webber should be ecstatic!
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm new to this part of the forum, but just wow.

If it was between different teams I think the FIA would have something to say, or if one of htem had got injured due to SV's stupidity there would have been some serious punishments handed out.

Racing is fine, a la LH/JB but ramming another car is for destruction derby, not F1
 
sunama said:
I don't think Alonso was reckless when he did this. Petrov should've been more careful and I think in future, he will show more respect when racing wheel to wheel with Alonso.

This sort of "respect" used to be shown to the likes of Senna, Mansell and Prost. In 2010, that "respect", which should be given to the top drivers, seems to have been forgotten.

Even Hamilton showed MS "respect", when he overtook him for the first time, earlier this season.
Click to expand...

Bit of an odd statement considering the main topic of this thread. From what I've seen its hard to tell who was at fault there but to just blame Petrov for not giving Alonso enough room because Alonso deserves more respect is laughable. Its like Redbull thinking Mark should have given Seb more room because Seb is probably the better chance at the title so deserves more respect than Mark.

More likely Alonso's frustration getting the better of him again and forcing his way through. I'd like to see how much room Alonso gave Petrov into the corner.
 
sunama said:
For crying out loud, Webber took 3rd place and got 15 points more than Vettel. Webber should be ecstatic!
Click to expand...

Yes Webber took more points away from Vettel than if they had finished first and second, but the two McLaren drivers have closed the points gap down and also lead the constructors championship. RBR have reliability issues (some of which appear to rear their head when the car is pushed hard and kerbs cheated) which may become more important if the gap to the other teams becomes closer still (we have already seen cars have to slow for economy reasons due to the race pace being higher than expected). Every point could well be important at the end of the season and drivers cannot afford to throw them away when they appear certain.

Also not every track will favour the RBRs either in the coming races. Canada has fast straights and slow corners something which the doesn't appear to be a strength. Last year in ultra low drag mode neither car really troubled the time sheets at Monza or Spa.
 
arknor said:
yea the sort of "respect" irvine showed senna :D
Click to expand...

And for that, Irvine got punched by Senna ;)

These days, there is no respect shown to drivers who are acknowledged to be of a higher callibre.

Even Hamilton showed respect to MS, when he first overtook MS. And that was Hamilton!
 
Lopéz said:
Yeah, if I'd been leading a GP with my team mate supporting me in 2nd, I'd be ecstatic when he decided to punt me down to third by pulling off a move he couldn't make stick.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at it like this:

Had Vettel finished with Webber in 1st, he would extend his lead by 7 points (over Vettel). In actuality, he has extended his lead over Vettel by 15 points.

Result!

PS. I like how you've used the word "supporting". Vettel does not "support" Webber. Vettel is out for blood and would rather Webber just dissapear off the face of the planet, so that he can win all the remaining (dry) races and the championship.
 
Alibaba99 said:
Also not every track will favour the RBRs either in the coming races. Canada has fast straights and slow corners something which the doesn't appear to be a strength. Last year in ultra low drag mode neither car really troubled the time sheets at Monza or Spa.
Click to expand...

RedBull are far ahead of the competition. You only have to look at the fact that no other team this year has been on pole.

In Canada, they will also have the best car. By the end of the season, it is quite possible that other teams will have closed them down, but its too far ahead to predict that.
 
sunama said:
RedBull are far ahead of the competition. You only have to look at the fact that no other team this year has been on pole.

In Canada, they will also have the best car. By the end of the season, it is quite possible that other teams will have closed them down, but its too far ahead to predict that.
Click to expand...


In low fuel qualy trim red bull still have a few tenths advantage but race pace I think mclaren are right on them when Hamilton was behind webber I think he could have gone faster mark was clearly trying to drop him but he was within half a second until the pits
 
mattx2 said:
In low fuel qualy trim red bull still have a few tenths advantage but race pace I think mclaren are right on them when Hamilton was behind webber I think he could have gone faster mark was clearly trying to drop him but he was within half a second until the pits
Click to expand...

Qualifying position is very important. I agree that in race trim, Hamilton is able to compete with the RedBulls, but if a RedBull is in front, Hamilton stands little chance of overtaking. Yes, he may be 1 tenth faster, but that isnt fast enough to get past.

RedBull's qualifying advantage gives them the advantage in the race itself.

Had RedBull not crashed into eachother, they would've got yet another 1-2. With all these 1-2 race finishes they have been getting - this is as close to total domination as a team can get.

Lets not beat around the bush - RedBull are well ahead of the opposition and are stand a very high chance of getting another 1-2 in Canada.
 
sunama said:
Had Vettel finished with Webber in 1st, he would extend his lead by 7 points (over Vettel). In actuality, he has extended his lead over Vettel by 15 points.

Result!
Click to expand...

And instead of being a hatful of points ahead of the McLarens, the gap to Button is now only five points.

Result!

Oh, wait.....

sunama said:
RedBull are far ahead of the competition. You only have to look at the fact that no other team this year has been on pole.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they have pace. For now. So why are they barely leading the drivers championship with Webber and losing out to the McLarens in the Constructors?

Answer - pace means the square root of bugger all if you can't translate it into wins. This supposedly massively superior car has won just three times in 7 races. That's a pretty ****-poor strike rate for a car that a lot of people say is so far ahead of the pack. And now that McLaren seem to be getting on terms with the raw speed of the RBR cars....I wouldn't be breaking out the bunting and party poppers for Webber or Vettel winning the title just yet.
 
Duke said:
They have a big update coming in Valencia so could still be slow in Canada.
Click to expand...

The problem is that every other leading team, also has other new parts in the pipeline. So relative to everybody else, it is quite conceivable that Ferrari could go backwards in Valencia, after their "big update".

My belief is that Alonso is letting the side down big time. Many believe him to be the best driver in F1 right now and the way he has driven so far this season, he has not justified this tag.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom