Turkey Grand Prix 2010, Istanbul Park - Race 7/19

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 11:11

JRS said:
Yeah, they have pace. For now. So why are they barely leading the drivers championship with Webber and losing out to the McLarens in the Constructors?

You must remember that McLaren have 2 top notch drivers, who are also the 2009 and 2008 World Champs.

RedBull have no world champions on board.

Basically we have:

Fastest car + decent drivers VS Slower car + better drivers (world champions)

The Constructors is race is separated by 1 point (so its basically a tie).

Had RedBull had higher quality drivers, then they would almost certainly be leading. Another point is that Mark Webber has definitely upped his game. I think he is driving better than he has ever driven in his career and this is now allowing RedBull to get into the position to get the 1-2.

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 11:12

JRS said:
And instead of being a hatful of points ahead of the McLarens, the gap to Button is now only five points.

Result!

Oh, wait.....

I would much rather have Button (in a slow McLaren) in 2nd than Vettel (in an equal (fastest) car), breathing down my neck. Especially when we know that Vettel has the support of the team bosses.

dannyjo22 · 1 Jun 2010 at 11:13

Alonso has done fine with the equipment he has had this season. Luck, reliability etc. This race was his worst this season, in comparison Massa had his best race against his team mate imo as he wasn't struggling with the car as much as Alonso. Yet Alonso was still right with him.

All through the year Alonso has been on the move with the car despite various problems, while his team mate has remained pretty static.

The cars just not very good, I think Alonso has done very well with the car he has. He pace relative to his team mate has been stunning in race trim.

Dutch Guy · 1 Jun 2010 at 11:37

sunama said:
I agree that in race trim, Hamilton is able to compete with the RedBulls, but if a RedBull is in front, Hamilton stands little chance of overtaking. Yes, he may be 1 tenth faster, but that isnt fast enough to get past.

Lets not beat around the bush - RedBull are well ahead of the opposition and are stand a very high chance of getting another 1-2 in Canada.

Hamilton could not pass in Turkey because he would lose a lot in turn 8 which is before the straight, I predict they will do better in Canada, if the McLaren's can almost match the pace in the middle part of the track they might be able to overtake after the long straight.

And I am so hoping that Vettel is over eager in the last corner, cathes the kurb on the inside which launches him against the barrier on the right.

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 11:55

dannyjo22 said:
The cars just not very good, I think Alonso has done very well with the car he has. He pace relative to his team mate has been stunning in race trim.

His race pace is good. I agree. But Massa keeps out qualifying him for some reason or another.

For a driver of the callibre of Alonso, I just don't expect to see so many screw-ups.

Alibaba99 · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:01

sunama said:
Qualifying position is very important. I agree that in race trim, Hamilton is able to compete with the RedBulls, but if a RedBull is in front, Hamilton stands little chance of overtaking. Yes, he may be 1 tenth faster, but that isnt fast enough to get past.

RedBull's qualifying advantage gives them the advantage in the race itself.

Had RedBull not crashed into eachother, they would've got yet another 1-2. With all these 1-2 race finishes they have been getting - this is as close to total domination as a team can get.

Lets not beat around the bush - RedBull are well ahead of the opposition and are stand a very high chance of getting another 1-2 in Canada.

The layout at Canada is very different. The long straight comes off a hairpin which is reached by another decent straight. These are not areas of performance that are currently strong in the RBR.

4T5 · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:22

I'm with the Dutch Guy & reckon Lewis will pawn at Canada.
After the last race I cannot wait for the lights to go out at Canada. :cool:

FrankJH · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:25

sunama said:
Qualifying position is very important. I agree that in race trim, Hamilton is able to compete with the RedBulls, but if a RedBull is in front, Hamilton stands little chance of overtaking. Yes, he may be 1 tenth faster, but that isnt fast enough to get past.

RedBull's qualifying advantage gives them the advantage in the race itself.

Had RedBull not crashed into eachother, they would've got yet another 1-2. With all these 1-2 race finishes they have been getting - this is as close to total domination as a team can get.

Lets not beat around the bush - RedBull are well ahead of the opposition and are stand a very high chance of getting another 1-2 in Canada.

Both McLarens were on Red Bull's race pace whether you admit it or not - thats proven by sequential fastest laps in the middle of the race

Qualifying at the end of the day actually counts for squat IF the race pace isnt there to match it. At the end of the day 2 tenths in quali may still be only 1 position on the grid.....which equates to what 6m, at race pace that puts someone right on the rear wing!!!

Red Bull's have "only" had 2 1 - 2's (and a 1-3 admittedly) - exactly the same as McLaren, not exactly as huge race domination as you are suggesting quite yet

4T5 · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:26

Don't forget it's Canada so we'll see the safety car out.

dannyjo22 · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:32

sunama said:
His race pace is good. I agree. But Massa keeps out qualifying him for some reason or another.

For a driver of the callibre of Alonso, I just don't expect to see so many screw-ups.

Please list these screw ups for me, I'd like to hear them race by race. Monaco is the only one I can remember that springs to mind that was 100% his fault.

Turkey was just a tyre issue he had with the car. Everyone will have a few of those sessions this year.

As for quallies well its 4-3 to alonso, one of those was this race where clearly he struggled on one set of tyres, monaco he sat out where clearly he would have pounded massa into the dust, but he made the mistake. Bahrain massa did alonso for pace in qfy then alonso won the race and left massa for dead once he hit clear air.

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:42

FrankJH said:
Red Bull's have "only" had 2 1 - 2's (and a 1-3 admittedly) - exactly the same as McLaren, not exactly as huge race domination as you are suggesting quite yet

Had the RedBulls not taken eachother out in the last race, the new stats would read:

RedBull 3, 1-2s
McLaren 1, 1-2.

I think there is a difference. Also, Webber seems to be on great form at the moment. I'm not saying that it will continue, but he is making very few mistakes and providing he qualifies on the front row (which he almost certainly will in Canada), it is very likely he will finish in the top2 in Canada.

Remember that Hamilton's pit strategy is always terrible, so RedBull can gain a place during the pitstop, if Hamilton jumps 1 of their cars at the start.

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:42

malc30 said:
Don't forget it's Canada so we'll see the safety car out.

Hehehe. Yep.

Demon · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:46

sunama said:
I would much rather have Button (in a slow McLaren) in 2nd than Vettel (in an equal (fastest) car), breathing down my neck. Especially when we know that Vettel has the support of the team bosses.

That actually makes sense to me, and seems as valid a point of view as any other, not sure why people are being so aggressive in knocking you for it, but this is Overclockers I suppose.

I guess if depends if you think Seb is more of a threat then Jenson/Lewis, which we don't have a crystal ball for..

utajoker · 1 Jun 2010 at 12:49

malc30 said:
I'm with the Dutch Guy & reckon Lewis will pawn at Canada.
After the last race I cannot wait for the lights to go out at Canada.

agreed. could be the first time its not a RB pole.

PinkFloyd · 1 Jun 2010 at 13:25

sunama said:
Qualifying position is very important. I agree that in race trim, Hamilton is able to compete with the RedBulls, but if a RedBull is in front, Hamilton stands little chance of overtaking. Yes, he may be 1 tenth faster, but that isnt fast enough to get past.

Lets not beat around the bush - RedBull are well ahead of the opposition and are stand a very high chance of getting another 1-2 in Canada.

Oh come on, Everyone with a pair of eyes can see the only reason Hamilton didn't easily overtake the redbulls was because the redbulls could take turn 8 nearly half a second quicker than any other car due to the quality of the aero on the car. His Mclaren was massively faster than the redbulls in the straight - so much so that despite the massive advantage the Bull's held around turn 8 he still had a few opportunities.
Come Canada there are no similar corners, I fully expect Mclaren to be the car to beat in 2 weeks.

sunama said:
I would much rather have Button (in a slow McLaren)

Ah yes, that slow Jenson Button chap who managed a faster lap than both Vettel and Hamilton and had no issue catching back up after his slow pitstop?
Your Button bashing is hiliarous.

Setroc · 1 Jun 2010 at 13:43

Now I'm not Button basher. I think that he has proved without a shadow of a doubt that he is a top driver. But why are people pointing to Button's fast lap as evidence of anything? The fast laps were set at a time when Hamilton was 0.4 seconds behind Vettel, and therefore the best he could do was match Vettel's time, while Button had a bit of clean air.

Demon · 1 Jun 2010 at 13:47

PinkFloyd said:
Ah yes, that slow Jenson Button chap who managed a faster lap than both Vettel and Hamilton and had no issue catching back up after his slow pitstop?
Your Button bashing is hiliarous.

I don't think he's bashing Button at all, he's just saying having a MacLaren behind him is better then a fellow Redbull, but since Jenson is the lead MacLaren in the WDC at the moment, he used his name? He categorically said the Maclaren was slow, not Jenson..

This whole Jenson love-in going on is getting silly, when you mention he had a solid race, you get childish flaming, if you insinuate his car is slow, suddenly you are accused of bashing him.. get a grip people..

I will be very glad if MacLaren are ahead of Redbull come the next race, but I think all this use of spot laptimes to insinuate MacLaren have leap-frogged Redbull relies on more faith then I care to want to invest..

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 14:25

PinkFloyd said:
Ah yes, that slow Jenson Button chap who managed a faster lap than both Vettel and Hamilton and had no issue catching back up after his slow pitstop?
Your Button bashing is hiliarous.

If you read carefully, you will notice that I didn't say, "slow Button". Those were your own words.

Also, try not to take things so personally. Take a chill pill.

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 14:26

Setroc said:
Now I'm not Button basher. I think that he has proved without a shadow of a doubt that he is a top driver. But why are people pointing to Button's fast lap as evidence of anything? The fast laps were set at a time when Hamilton was 0.4 seconds behind Vettel, and therefore the best he could do was match Vettel's time, while Button had a bit of clean air.

The Button supporters don't seem to understand this fact.

sunama · 1 Jun 2010 at 14:32

It seems that the mere suggestion that Button isn't as fast as some other driver doesn't go down well with some on this forum. Whats more is that they take it so personally, its as if their own mother had just been insulted.

Take Note
This is just a forum. Thats all it is. The posts are merely opinions. Not fact. Some of you need to understand this. If you don't agree with the opinion, state the reason and prepare a counter argument. To start calling other people silly names, simply because your opinions are diffferent is tantamount to throwing your toys out of a pram.