Turkey Grand Prix 2010, Istanbul Park - Race 7/19

What annoys me is that they're running an aero part that is angled at 20 degrees (the limit is 5 degrees), but instead of telling them to remove it they're allowed to cover it in tubing.

I admit I'm no designer, but surely an illegal part at 20 degrees (covered in tubing) is better than the 5 degree "standard" part?
 
dannyjo22 said:
I maintain the diffuser on the brawn would have been banned had the fairy tale story not been so high profile.
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seems a bit daft to me - no one at all could have been able to tell that early in the year that Brawn would eventually win the title (or that Ferrari AND Mclaren would develop their cars so slowly / not at all), let alone that Red Bull would continue to be pretty unreliable

All completely seperate Ifs, buts & maybe's - any one of which could have drastically changed the amounts of races JB (and RB to a lesser extent) won
 
FrankJH said:
seems a bit daft to me - no one at all could have been able to tell that early in the year that Brawn would eventually win the title (or that Ferrari AND Mclaren would develop their cars so slowly / not at all), let alone that Red Bull would continue to be pretty unreliable
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McLaren - slow at updating the car last year? They went from nigh on the slowest team to almost the fastest at the end of the year. Surely that is some development right there? Ferrari caught up at some circuits but they did not put the resources in and focused on this year - to great effect it seems.
 
EVH said:
What annoys me is that they're running an aero part that is angled at 20 degrees (the limit is 5 degrees), but instead of telling them to remove it they're allowed to cover it in tubing.

I admit I'm no designer, but surely an illegal part at 20 degrees (covered in tubing) is better than the 5 degree "standard" part?
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I haven't read anything about the specific part, but my uneducated guess would be the more they angle the part which is acting as a wing the more downforce they get off it, if they cover it in tubing it's now no longer wing shaped so it isn't producing any downforce as no wind can hit the part at all so it doesn't matter what angle the part underneath is at, and probably is worse for performance then the legal 5 degrees angle.
 
EVH said:
What annoys me is that they're running an aero part that is angled at 20 degrees (the limit is 5 degrees), but instead of telling them to remove it they're allowed to cover it in tubing.

I admit I'm no designer, but surely an illegal part at 20 degrees (covered in tubing) is better than the 5 degree "standard" part?
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it's only limited to 5degrees if it's aerodynamic. So a 20degrees plain tube, is perfectly legal.

dannyjo22 said:
I amazed that red bull have gotten away with this, but then it's good for the sport to have other winners. I maintain the diffuser on the brawn would have been banned had the fairy tale story not been so high profile.
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Difference is a double diffuser isn't against the rules, Brawn also said in meetings before the start of the season, the rule should be tightened. To remove the loop hole.
 
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AcidHell2 said:
what team was it that had the fuel pressurisation system. IIRC they didn't actually prove teh car was under weight at any point, just that it could drop below the minimum weight. Or am I not remembering it correctly. Yet RBR have parts that are clearly Illegal and nothing on the formula1 website or anything else. They also knew hence the crowding of people around it.

I really hopped this season and teh change in fia would bring an end to these silly decisions, but so far we have had MSC stripped of points, despite the fact race control messed up know illegal parts being swept under the carpet. Madness.
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The Honda was fully illegal as the rules require that the minimum weight of the car is met dry so fuel cannot be used as ballast. The fact that no-one checked this meant that Honda (and others, maybe) got away with it. Honda were also caught in that the use of data logged info cannot be used as proof, so couldn't present any legal data which showed that the car had never run under weight.

The presidence for RBR keeping their points could have been set with Ferrari and their bouncy floor. This was also illegal, and once discovered banned, but didn't result in Kimi losing the points from Oz when the car was running with it.
 
Alibaba99 said:
The presidence for RBR keeping their points could have been set with Ferrari and their bouncy floor. This was also illegal, and once discovered banned, but didn't result in Kimi losing the points from Oz when the car was running with it.
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Then why the secrecy, why the apparent media ban. why nothing from the FIA about it.

My point wasn't that Honda should have got away with it, but how teh FIA reacted to cheating.
 
F1 teams will always try to push the limits of the rules to gain an advantage, Mclaren did it with the F duct this year, brawn with the double defuser last year it's nothing new in 78 the fan car was clearly illegal in spirit but not in the rules. Teams will also put on illegal parts and run the risk of being caught as the only likely harm that will come to them is to remove it, now that there's a history of non punishment you'd be a foolish team not to take the chance when the rewards can be race wins and the penalty being nothing.
 
Seriously this lot can't lie any better than Macca.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8725730.stm

"I got a very good run out of corner leading on to back straight, got a good tow. Then I was going on the inside.

"I had already passed Mark and then tried to come slowly back to the right.

"At that time I was the leading car and then usually the leader dictates when to go. We made contact and that was the end of the race for me."
Asked why he had given the 'crazy sign' to Webber - circling his finger at his forehead - after the incident, Vettel said: "I think it was pretty clear at the time. I don't think it was a crazy sign. I think it's very common. I think everyone understood."

Vettel denied either driver had been given any instructions from the team and he added he would do nothing differently if the two men were in the same situation again.


So now there was no team message or orders for Webber to move over. You heard it from the horses mouth, despite the complete contradiction to what his own team has already said.
 
Well, he can hardly come out and say to the national press that there were team orders, which break the rules...can he?

My understanding of the "crazy" gesture was that he thought that Webber had been told to move over. As far as Vettel was concerned, Webber was going to make life as easy possible for him to allow the overtake. Then when it came to the crunch, Mark "crazy" Webber started holding his line on the track and was fighting the overtake. Little did Vettel know, Webber was never told that he had to let Vettel through...that message was never passed on by Webber's engineer.

I'm really looking forward to the next GP. Canada promises to be great, as Hamilton has been in fantastic form this year and finally seems to have a car which can go head to head with the RedBulls. I'm also anticipating some form of revival from Ferrari; I can't believe that a giant like Ferrari, combined with Alonso's ability has led to such poor results (by their combined standards).
 
I_M_Weasel said:
F1 teams will always try to push the limits of the rules to gain an advantage, Mclaren did it with the F duct this year, brawn with the double defuser last year it's nothing new in 78 the fan car was clearly illegal in spirit but not in the rules. Teams will also put on illegal parts and run the risk of being caught as the only likely harm that will come to them is to remove it, now that there's a history of non punishment you'd be a foolish team not to take the chance when the rewards can be race wins and the penalty being nothing.
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The difference is that the F-Duct and double diffusers both exploited loop holes in the rules, ie the absolute spirit of the rules might not allow such devices but the actual wording did.

The RBR front and rear suspension both contravened the actual letter of the law, yet the cars somehow passed scruitineering and were allowed to race without being stopped.

As to non-punishment, thinking further back, Ferrari had their points removed for the race in which their oversized barge boards were protested. The points were then reinstated when the FIA used their stretchy tape measure and even stretchier rule book to make them legal again. McLaren then had points removed at a race the following year when Couthard's car was found to contravene the allowable tolerance after receiving damage in the race.
 
JRS, if Ferrari were competing directly with RBR (as McLaren are right now), you can bet RBR would be dealt with by the FIA and their progress would be halted.

There is still time though. RBR seem to be taking things to the limit now and as the season progresses, providing Ferrari move into the title hunt (which is still a distinct possiblity), they could still be punished.

Personally, I wouldnt want anything to happen right now to RBR, because their battle with Hamilton is just beginning to hot up. Hamilton clearly has the pace to unsettle and put the RBR drivers under pressure. I'm sensing some exciting times at Canada.

If RBR got banned for a few races at this moment in time, I can see McLaren getting 1-2s for those races.

Also, now that we are moving into the middle of the season and Mercedes have adapted their car to suit MS, what are people's opinions of MS's come-back and his relative performance compared to Rosberg?
 
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