Turkish Grand Prix 2011, Istanbul Park - Race 4/19

dannyjo22 said:
You overstate how much input drivers have into developement these days, especially with little testing.
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Actually by the virtue of the fact that a driver has 7 World Championships, even the little input he gives is worth it's weight in gold for development, especially with such limited testing. So no I don't overstate the input a driver has.
 
JRS said:
Why is he 'sullying his good name' though? Those records that he set don't just suddenly disappear just because he's no longer fighting for wins. And hell - to be only a second away from Rosberg (who is no slouch at the wheel of a Formula One car) on hot-lapping pace with the difference in their ages, I'd say that was pretty decent.
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To be 1 second off the pace of your team-mate, for most drivers, is embarrassing. In F1, 1 second is MASSIVE. Especially, when you have such a big reputation and are talking about winning races or titles.

Vettel is far superior to Webber, however, even he seldom manages to out qualify Webber by over 1 second.

JRS said:
As far as race pace goes this season so far, they've both finished twice. Schumacher beat Rosberg home by three places in Malaysia, Rosberg returned the favour in China by the same margin. Schumacher finished in the points both times, Rosberg just the once (albeit higher in the result). Don't really see how any conclusions about their pace WRT each other this season can be drawn just yet.
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Rosberg is ahead on points after 3 races. This is exactly what happened last year and exactly the same pattern is being repeated. Only last year, there were a different set of excuses.

I'm pretty sure that when Mercedes decided to hire MSc, they thought they were getting the MSc of old, who would out perform the team-mate by a big margin, allowing him to focus the entire team around him. However, given that Rosberg beat him last season and continues to do the same this year, MSc cannot be looked at as the lead driver.
 
sunama said:
MSc is the most successful driver ever to have driven an F1 car. He holds all sorts of records.

For him to return to F1 (after retiring) and especially at his age, he sullying his good name by getting whipped by Rosberg. He was out qualified by around 1s today...thats embarrassing for somebody of his stature.

He isn't short of money. He has more money than he knows what to do with and with all the sponsorship deals and investments he already has, even without F1, he would still be earning more money than most mortals can earn in a lifetime.

There simply is no need to draw this out any longer. If anybody is going to win for Mercedes, it will be Rosberg, unless MSc gets lucky. On skill alone, MSc cannot compete against Rosberg. He was beaten in the championship last season by him and the same pattern is now beginning to repeat itself this year. In order to justify the beating he is taking, his team and him are having to come up with creative reasons.
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I've taken onboard everything you've said. And here's my statement:

He enjoys competing in Formula 1. What more needs to be said?
 
lol the telegraph writer is forgetting something:

"Ultimately, though, his challenge, as well as those of the McLarens and Ferraris will surely founder unless Red Bull get a poor start, their strategy wrong or suffer technical failure."

..................... or, um, RBR Collision sending both off again? :D
 
smr said:
I've taken onboard everything you've said. And here's my statement:

He enjoys competing in Formula 1. What more needs to be said?
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Exactly.

elmuzzy66. said:
It doesn't matter what he does, 7wdc aren't gona disappear, if only he wasn't german.
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And this is the hilarious (read: terribly sad and disappointing) thing. If he was from Italy, or South America, or France, or even Britain (bit too successful to be British I guess ;)) then he would be accorded the same reverence that Fangio, or Moss, or Clark, or Senna get.

To borrow from the great Prophet Walker:

'Tell me what that arrogant ******* Schumacher's really like,' someone once said to me.

'Hey, just a minute,' I replied, 'have you met him? Have you talked to him? Why do you say he's arrogant?'

'You've only got to look at him, haven't you? And he's German.'

'Well hang on. Your prejudice is showing. I fought them during the war but just because you're German doesn't mean you're off limits. You're wrong. He's a really decent bloke, he's never been anything other than helpful and considerate to me and I've got a lot of time for him. He's as friendly as you can expect anybody in his position to be. In fact he's an amazingly normal bloke if you know him. Ask anyone who does. Loves his wife, children and football. All that sort of thing'
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Probably for the best that I don't quote any more of that chapter in Murray's autobiography, given that he goes on to speak of The Almighty Satanic Evil That Is Bernie Ecclestone™ in positive terms :eek::rolleyes::p
 
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For those wondering where Anthony Davidson is this weekend.

He's just won the Le Mans 1000km of Spa-Francorchamps.

2vv1gkk.jpg


:)
 
Type_R said:
Actually by the virtue of the fact that a driver has 7 World Championships, even the little input he gives is worth it's weight in gold for development, especially with such limited testing. So no I don't overstate the input a driver has.
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Different eras of cars, his feedback is no longer worth it's weight in gold. Engineers develope these cars these days not the drivers. The drivers give feedback on 'balance' and the engineers come up with solutions.

The best evidence for this is the turnaround of Mclaren in 2009. They do all development themselves from having a wealth of data from the car.

As for MSc, anyone that thinks he's actually having fun knows nothing of the man. One of the most ruthless win at all costs drivers of all time. There's no way in hell he's having fun being picked apart win in week out by a team mate 10 years ago he would have crushed into insignificance. Brawn needs to man up and take the decision out of MSc hands, a man who always said he knew when the right time would be to retire.
 
dannyjo22 said:
snip
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At the end of the day danny, you can only go on what he says himself. And if he says he's enjoying this year, then he must be enjoying it. He doesn't exactly look miserable any time a camera catches him (not the way Damon Hill did in '99 every time a camera got a glance).

Is he the same Schumacher who got out of the game at the close of the '06 season when it was clear that Ferrari didn't really want him in the cockpit any more? If he is, then you have to believe that he knows when the time is to retire for good and that this time hasn't arrived yet. If he isn't, then you have to throw away any preconceptions or ideas about what motivates him to get into a Formula One car and drive now.

Simples! *squeak*
 
Bet Rosberg drops below 5th before the first lap is over :p

Depending on RBs KERS, Vettel will just run away with it tomorrow, IF he can get a good start.
 
elmuzzy66. said:
Mind you some people only dislike he becasue f1 became a bore when he was on top. He is up there with the greats .
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Oh man yes, and now he is back I find myself wishing he was doing better. It is sad to see such a great racer as he is today.

I absolutly hated seeing him win with Ferrari.
 
ashrobbo said:
Great qualy session, vettel really does have some serious pace, fastest lap record round turkey ever i believe?

A red bull 1-2 from me.
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Seems likely. However we got to remember that during the race the other teams are a lot more competitive than Quali.
 
JRS said:
At the end of the day danny, you can only go on what he says himself. And if he says he's enjoying this year, then he must be enjoying it. He doesn't exactly look miserable any time a camera catches him (not the way Damon Hill did in '99 every time a camera got a glance).

Is he the same Schumacher who got out of the game at the close of the '06 season when it was clear that Ferrari didn't really want him in the cockpit any more? If he is, then you have to believe that he knows when the time is to retire for good and that this time hasn't arrived yet. If he isn't, then you have to throw away any preconceptions or ideas about what motivates him to get into a Formula One car and drive now.

Simples! *squeak*
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Fair enough, I've never ever seen a more motivated winner and utterly sore loser in all my life watching and just find it extremely hard to believe he is happy racing in any of way except winning or atleast being competitive.

I think Brawns car in 09 tempted him to have a go at something he really didn't need and with Mercedes rumoured to be ignoring Brawn because they think they know best I can see the dream collapsing.

Brawn really should go back to ferrari. :)
 
Not sure how MSc was SO slow in Q3.

Don't know if anyone noticed but Schumi was nearly 7 tenths faster in FP3..

Odd.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Brawn really should go back to ferrari. :)
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If only Montezemolo would reverse his idea of making Ferrari an Italian only super-team.

TBH that's what's ****** Ferrari up. They lost key personnel and replaced them with people only based on their nationality rather than talent.
 
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