Trouble is, the car is so much faster they can sacrifice race speed to gain advantage in qauli, as they are doing with DRS. This is brilliant tactic for RBR. But it doesn't look good for the rest of the field as it means unless they make a mistake, they can start from the front.
Turkish Grand Prix 2011, Istanbul Park - Race 4/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Trouble is, the car is so much faster they can sacrifice race speed to gain advantage in qauli, as they are doing with DRS. This is brilliant tactic for RBR. But it doesn't look good for the rest of the field as it means unless they make a mistake, they can start from the front.
Soldato
I'll need to dig out my copy of Gerald Donaldson's biography of James Hunt to get the exact quote, but James referred to the McLaren team's ability to collectively keep a cool head in pressure situations as being pretty much non-existant. I guess some things never change.
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Caporegime
Good race but they got the DRS zone wrong this time.
I'm amazed Massa escaped penalty for that release.
I'm amazed Massa escaped penalty for that release.
Surely the unsafe pit release thing is cut and dry - they have marker boards for reference, if Hamilton was beyond that board and they released Massa they breached the rule... simple?
If the rule is about safety (as would be implied by terming it 'unsafe pit release') whether he gave up the place or not is irrelevant, that doesn't change the level of danger brought about by releasing one car into the path of another.
If the rule is about safety (as would be implied by terming it 'unsafe pit release') whether he gave up the place or not is irrelevant, that doesn't change the level of danger brought about by releasing one car into the path of another.
I guess he trusted the information he was being given, wrongly. I don't believe Mclaren tried to screw him. I believe they are both (JB and Macca) thinking too much of last year where JB's tyre wear could carry him through. Now the tyres don't blister they just fall off. It's become pointless trying to conserve tyres. You might as well cover what everyone else does and make use of the grip.
I also think Mclaren don't like having JB and LH on the same strategy duelling each other, they seem to be intentionally keeping them apart.
I felt sorry for JB today purely because that's the first time he's actually been able to bite back at lewis. Normally lewis would pass him and JB would drop off. This time though I was very surprised when he came back at him and pulled away. The time lost running tyres too long undid his early work.
The tires are adding nothing for me anymore. The compounds are too far apart and there really is no way you can make a strategy work on another compound running less stops. So whats the point?
Whats really different from seeing them all do 2 stops on bridgestones or all doing 4 stops on pirellis? I personally feel that needs looking at more than the DRS.
Alonso for me showed the machine he is. No one else on the planet could have pulled off that drive in the ferrari today. Simply stunning, consistent and extracted more than anyone could have hoped.
Kudos to Hamilton and Button for their duel as well, if drivers respected each others car width like that all the time we wouldn't need overtaking devices in the first place.
Then on the other end of the scale you have MS with the same old car as a weapon race craft. Ross Brawn should be telling him tonight that he has 4 races to turn this around. The season is written off for them by then, they may as well start preparing for a future driver. They would be completely mad to give him a third year and lose out on a Kobi or Di Resta.
No because he didn't really have to take avoiding action did he. I don't see what all the fuss is about. If it was usually punished I'd agree but it isn't.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/04/...dice-with-vettel-could-cost-him-second-place/
This is worse and Vettel even tries to edge him over to the mechanics, no penalty. For once the stewards were consistent.
Hey JRS, seems MS isn't enjoying his racing after all 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13328830.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13328830.stm
Man of Honour
sunama said:
You said this just before China:
sunama said:
So which is it?
That's his usual playing both sides so he looks like he's always right
I personally feel it's down to Hamilton and Alonso. No one else has the speed and consistency to get the best out of a slower car to Vettel.
Basically a re-run of last year made harder buy Webber not taking enough points from the finger wagger.
I personally feel it's down to Hamilton and Alonso. No one else has the speed and consistency to get the best out of a slower car to Vettel.
Basically a re-run of last year made harder buy Webber not taking enough points from the finger wagger.
What's the point in the marker boards then if it's only judged to be dangerous when they actually crash or come very close to crashing? They obviously serve no purpose at all.
The logic behind some of the rules really does baffle me at times.
Soldato
Wait for it...
Don't make me say it
Hey JRS, seems MS isn't enjoying his racing after all
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13328830.stm
I saw that too. I guess we'll find out for certain soon if he announces his retirement to pave the way for Merc to get Paul Di Resta hired!
Soldato
Anyones felt that by the end of the race brundle was running out of gas in the commentry box? Silly mistakes creeping in and the like.
Soldato
Slightly, But still good commentary, With so much going on I can forgive them both small mistakes.
Last season I really couldn't
Di Resta needs to be snapped up by one of the leading teams "for sure"
Last season I really couldn't
Di Resta needs to be snapped up by one of the leading teams "for sure"
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Vettel should have been absolutely done last year, Hamilton had no where to go and Vettel was pushing him over, Hamilton against Massa did no such thing, and just because Massa didn't have to advoid anyone, thats mostly down to pit timing, had several other cars been pitting further down the pit crew on that side would have been in massive danger. Unlike Hamilton who was avoiding pit crews AND he was stuck between Vettel's tyres unable to just break and slip in behind, Massa could and should have backed off. If Hamilton did have space last year but didn't back off, I'd have expected him to get in trouble.
Massa shouldn't have been released and when he was he should IMMEDIATELY have pulled back and got inline behind Hamilton. One bad call on punishment doesn't make another correct, and consistancy only matters within the single season, rules change every year, consistancy brings fairness, but being consistant year to year makes no difference.
Anyway, another mostly rubbish race, sure Button due to strategy and Hamiltons weakening tyres managed to get back at Hamilton. But that was largely due to the utterly absurd DRS zone, hell Hamilton did seem to pull away for half a lap and, I'm not sure, did his tyres degrade that badly over half a lap that Button got in the DRS zone and got back at him?
Tyres are ridiculous, Hamilton following and actively trying to get past Button in the first stint clearly cost his tyres a few laps. We've got tyres and DRS zones that make really trying to race, well, pointless.
You take over someone and try hard in the DRS zone and you get an easy overtake, you try anywhere else on the track, you're punished by crap tyres and your race is screwed, its a complete and utter joke.
Also the painfully irritating situation that when you have 3 cars following closely a "slow" middle car will end up unable to pass the car infront, but due to his DRS being open, the car behind being unable to get past(unless its Schumy
).I watched the race and just felt, by and large there was no racing, follow the guy around and then DRS past him without the slightest bit of effort. Infact other than Schumy who went all over the place, most people didn't even bother trying to defend as the DRS was SO effective here. Almost everyone just gave up and tried to, again prevent their tyres from being damaged by going offline and "defending", there was no defence to DRS and saving the tyres was more important.
Well this is what I mean, I thought the marker boards were introduced so that this sort of thing can be made consistent, if you release when a car is past the markers, you've breached the rules. Job done, no arguments, totally objective, total consistency.
It seems though that this isn't the case, in fact the rule is 'release a car whenever you want but if they crash and you are found to have released past the marker then we will punish you' which really, completely negates the need for the marker boards at all as it's obvious to anyone with eyes whether something is dangerous in that sort of situation.
So, could anyone enlighten me as to the purpose of those pit lane markers as they're obviously not related to safe/unsafe pit release rules as I thought they were?
They were talking about it on the Forum and essentially the boards aren't accurate enough.
It's a tiny piece of cardboard strapped to the pit wall at a set distance from each teams' pit box. DC could hardly see the pit box from the marker, never mind the other way around.
EJ said that for a sport which is so reliant on technology it's a bit of an 'analogue' solution and should really get some investment to make it a digital system.
Obviously with TV replays and hindsight it's easy to see whether or not a car has been released after the other car has passed the marker but in the heat of the moment, under pressure and at speed, I can fully understand why lollypop men misjudge the decision if that marker is all they have to go on.
It's a tiny piece of cardboard strapped to the pit wall at a set distance from each teams' pit box. DC could hardly see the pit box from the marker, never mind the other way around.
EJ said that for a sport which is so reliant on technology it's a bit of an 'analogue' solution and should really get some investment to make it a digital system.
Obviously with TV replays and hindsight it's easy to see whether or not a car has been released after the other car has passed the marker but in the heat of the moment, under pressure and at speed, I can fully understand why lollypop men misjudge the decision if that marker is all they have to go on.
Is there any video showing clearly the difference in time between the two releases? Like the Vettel-Hamilton release from last year video shows both cars simultaneously, but the only videos I saw of Hamilton-Massa were at angles and you could only see one car at a time, which made it a bit unclear exactly when Massa was released and where Hamilton was at that time.
Associate
I hate to say this and i didnt think i ever would but.....
I do not like the new tyres or what they have brought to the sport, in my opinion the tyres are completely overshadowing everything else and its not making for an enjoyable watch.
Again i know this is probably going against what most people think but i dont see the tyre change as a forward step at all.
I do not like the new tyres or what they have brought to the sport, in my opinion the tyres are completely overshadowing everything else and its not making for an enjoyable watch.
Again i know this is probably going against what most people think but i dont see the tyre change as a forward step at all.
Haha I love it, if Hamilton hadve stayed past Button you wouldn't have let the tyres going off for Button stick as an excuse. You would have been banging on about breezing past Button again.
If it was just the DRS zone allowing Button to get passed again, hamilton would then pass him right back.
Besides when Button passed Hamilton in was at the end of the start finish straight into turn one. The Drs zone is activated just before turn 11 and the rundown to 12. Button didn't repass hamilton with DRS.