Soldato
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TV Licence Super Thread
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Jun 2012
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- 2,817
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- UK
it narrows it down to the address, and then they can work out if that house has a tv license or not. Anything passed that is ridiculous to prove
So the TV licence is akin to slavery is it, the most ridiculous quote I've seen on these forums and trust me in GD there is so many contenders daily.
Pay it and use the service or don't pay it and don't use the service, not sure how it can be attributed to slavery having those 2 simple choices.
Soldato
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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- 11,701
- Location
- Cheshire
No possible way they can prove that someone who does have a tv license wasn't present in the property and using iplayer. Unenforceable.
People who want to ditch the TVL read this.
It's important that you understand the system so you don't get tripped up
First of all, the law says it is an offense to watch or record any live tv channels (or use BBC iplayer) without a tv licence.
It doesn't say "you must have a tv licence" merely that you can't watch live broadcasts without one.
It's an important difference because it means if tv licensing want to take any action against you they have to be able to prove that you watch or record live tv channels, not merely that you don't have a tv licence.
You can legally own a tv without a tv licence, and you can use it to watch DVDs, play games consoles, watch anything OnDemand (like Netflix etc) or watch anything on Catch Up (other than BBC iplayer which is a special case)
Tv licensing will write you lots of letters. There resources are limited and they don't have the time or the staff to visit every unlicensed address in the country.
They send lots of letters automatically by computer, in the hope that a letter or two will prompt you to voluntarily contact them to buy a licence, and save them the time, effort and expense of sending a salesmen to visit you.
We recommend that you ignore all these letters. They will keep pointing out in big letters that "you are breaking the law" then in small writing "if you are watching live broadcasts without a licence"
They will call their salesmen "enforcement officers" and use words like "investigation" in an attempt to convince you that this is official law enforcement business and try to make you assume that these "enforcement officers" have all sorts of legal powers, which they actually don't have.
These salesmen are ordinary members of the public, nothing more. They are door to door salesmen.
It's their job to try talking you into buying a tv licence, if you won't buy one, they want to convince you to change your mind.
To that end they'll try gathering evidence so they can take you to court so you change your mind about buying one in future (and to deter others from saying no).
If they want to take you to court they need to be able to prove to a magistrate that you do actually watch or record live broadcasts.
There are only 2 types of evidence that they can get. The first would be for them to actually be an eye witness. To get into your house and see for themselves that your tv is set up to receive live tv channels.
To that end they will ask you if they can come in to check your tv. They don't have the legal authority to enter your house unless you invite them in, just like any other member of the public. You can legally say no. You don't have to invite them into your house.
If they can't get you to invite them in, they will try to get the other type of evidence, a confession.
They'll ask you questions, "do you have a tv?" And "when did you last use your tv to watch live broadcasts?"
If you answer these questions they will record your answers and then ask you to sign the form to confirm everything on the form is correct. That form then becomes a signed confession of guilt.
That's all the evidence they need to then take you to court.
HOWEVER, I'm sure you've heard this before . . . YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT
You do not have to answer any questions. We strongly recommend that you don't. And we urge you to NEVER SIGN ANY PAPERWORK.
It's perfectly legal to say NO
They often tell people that if you don't cooperate they will come back with the police, that's a bluff because tv licensing is not a police matter, the police will not get involved with it. It's an idle threat to try intimidating you into cooperating.
It's perfectly legal to say NO
If they can get some form of evidence against you (eye witness or confession) they will then use that to apply for a court summons. To do that they need to fill in a form, and the first line on the form asks for "name of defendant"
Which is why we strongly recommend that you never give them, nor confirm, your name. If they don't know your name they can't even apply for a court summons to start a case.
We recommend that you ignore the letters they send, you don't have to respond.
It'll take them 6-7 months of trying letters before they commit to the time and effort of asking a salesmen to visit.
If one does, don't confirm your name (even if they seem to know it), don't invite them into your house and don't answer any questions.
Most importantly never sign any paperwork.
Refusing to cooperate is perfectly legal, so don't be afraid to just say "no thank you" and close the door.
It's important that you understand the system so you don't get tripped up
First of all, the law says it is an offense to watch or record any live tv channels (or use BBC iplayer) without a tv licence.
It doesn't say "you must have a tv licence" merely that you can't watch live broadcasts without one.
It's an important difference because it means if tv licensing want to take any action against you they have to be able to prove that you watch or record live tv channels, not merely that you don't have a tv licence.
You can legally own a tv without a tv licence, and you can use it to watch DVDs, play games consoles, watch anything OnDemand (like Netflix etc) or watch anything on Catch Up (other than BBC iplayer which is a special case)
Tv licensing will write you lots of letters. There resources are limited and they don't have the time or the staff to visit every unlicensed address in the country.
They send lots of letters automatically by computer, in the hope that a letter or two will prompt you to voluntarily contact them to buy a licence, and save them the time, effort and expense of sending a salesmen to visit you.
We recommend that you ignore all these letters. They will keep pointing out in big letters that "you are breaking the law" then in small writing "if you are watching live broadcasts without a licence"
They will call their salesmen "enforcement officers" and use words like "investigation" in an attempt to convince you that this is official law enforcement business and try to make you assume that these "enforcement officers" have all sorts of legal powers, which they actually don't have.
These salesmen are ordinary members of the public, nothing more. They are door to door salesmen.
It's their job to try talking you into buying a tv licence, if you won't buy one, they want to convince you to change your mind.
To that end they'll try gathering evidence so they can take you to court so you change your mind about buying one in future (and to deter others from saying no).
If they want to take you to court they need to be able to prove to a magistrate that you do actually watch or record live broadcasts.
There are only 2 types of evidence that they can get. The first would be for them to actually be an eye witness. To get into your house and see for themselves that your tv is set up to receive live tv channels.
To that end they will ask you if they can come in to check your tv. They don't have the legal authority to enter your house unless you invite them in, just like any other member of the public. You can legally say no. You don't have to invite them into your house.
If they can't get you to invite them in, they will try to get the other type of evidence, a confession.
They'll ask you questions, "do you have a tv?" And "when did you last use your tv to watch live broadcasts?"
If you answer these questions they will record your answers and then ask you to sign the form to confirm everything on the form is correct. That form then becomes a signed confession of guilt.
That's all the evidence they need to then take you to court.
HOWEVER, I'm sure you've heard this before . . . YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT
You do not have to answer any questions. We strongly recommend that you don't. And we urge you to NEVER SIGN ANY PAPERWORK.
It's perfectly legal to say NO
They often tell people that if you don't cooperate they will come back with the police, that's a bluff because tv licensing is not a police matter, the police will not get involved with it. It's an idle threat to try intimidating you into cooperating.
It's perfectly legal to say NO
If they can get some form of evidence against you (eye witness or confession) they will then use that to apply for a court summons. To do that they need to fill in a form, and the first line on the form asks for "name of defendant"
Which is why we strongly recommend that you never give them, nor confirm, your name. If they don't know your name they can't even apply for a court summons to start a case.
We recommend that you ignore the letters they send, you don't have to respond.
It'll take them 6-7 months of trying letters before they commit to the time and effort of asking a salesmen to visit.
If one does, don't confirm your name (even if they seem to know it), don't invite them into your house and don't answer any questions.
Most importantly never sign any paperwork.
Refusing to cooperate is perfectly legal, so don't be afraid to just say "no thank you" and close the door.
The 9 guns?
Freemen of the land?
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2012
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- 9,898
- Location
- South Wales
I do love how much TV licence winds some people up.
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
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- 16,716
It's a shame we don't already have a TVL thread
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
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- 16,716
I don't mind paying the licence fee just for top gear and f1
Oh boy. Here we go.
For the record, I don't pay a TV license. My reasoning is that a service should be rewarded based on the quality. If you look at other services, they use ads to generate revenue. Make crap shows, nobody watches, nobody sees ads, make no money. Make quality shows, people watch, people see ads, show makes money. This is business 101. To tell me I MUST pay for a service whether I use it or not is nonsense. And then to send letters that would make a debt agency look amateur with words like "officer" and "investigation" is deceitful bullying, as their "officers" are merely employees and their "investigation" stops when I shut the door.
If they weren't so underhanded and actually provided aservice I enjoy, I'd pay it. As it stands now however, they can take their threatening ******** letters and do one. Scumbags.
For the record, I don't pay a TV license. My reasoning is that a service should be rewarded based on the quality. If you look at other services, they use ads to generate revenue. Make crap shows, nobody watches, nobody sees ads, make no money. Make quality shows, people watch, people see ads, show makes money. This is business 101. To tell me I MUST pay for a service whether I use it or not is nonsense. And then to send letters that would make a debt agency look amateur with words like "officer" and "investigation" is deceitful bullying, as their "officers" are merely employees and their "investigation" stops when I shut the door.
If they weren't so underhanded and actually provided aservice I enjoy, I'd pay it. As it stands now however, they can take their threatening ******** letters and do one. Scumbags.
Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
- Posts
- 16,716
£12.12 a month IIRC
Haha, I had the exact same experience.
First day getting the keys and I find a TV licence letter on the door mat, council had no idea the house even existed.