Type R and VTEC owners

Dangerous Dave · 31 Jan 2015 at 13:10

Vita said:
I'll be contacting my solicitor. I'll see where I stand and what I can do. I know I have rights under the SOGA1979, and I can get the car repaired/replaced or partial/full refund. I think the dealer I have bought it from won't take any blame.

I suspect you will have a fight on your hands, you need to weigh up the costs if you are paying a solicitor compared to getting a second hand engine fitted.

The garage need to prove the fault wasn't present when they sold it which in this case may be fairly easy as the car was running when you picked it up, you could try and use the noise side of it but Honda will no doubt produce a report saying that was the VCs and not related to the failure so you are back to square one.

Vita · 31 Jan 2015 at 13:21

Simon · 31 Jan 2015 at 14:32

How does a timing chain 'slip'?

On Holiday · 31 Jan 2015 at 14:46

Simon said:
How does a timing chain 'slip'?

I'm not mechanically minded at all so no idea if this is correct; but on the basis of what I've heard from others - low oil/pressure -> tensioner issue -> chain issue -> boom?

bJN · 31 Jan 2015 at 14:59

Timing chain is by extension a moving part. Low oil level and pressure could cause it to stretch over prolonged periods. This stretching could then give way to the chain slipping on teeth. At least that's the way I understand it, whether or not is correct is another matter.

Simon · 31 Jan 2015 at 19:14

Yeah but that sort of low pressure on a honda will cause the bottom end to go. Are you sure it's not a bearing knocking ?

Hard to tell over the net I know but seems crazy for that explanation. Also I would imagine the ivtec system would pick up on it and flag a CEL

Stormster · 31 Jan 2015 at 19:22

Vita, are you closeish to Stoke-on-Trent? I know of a really reputable garage who may be able to help for relatively reasonable money if it's rebuild or new engine time. Work on these day in day out. Email in my Trust

Vita · 31 Jan 2015 at 19:26

Will · 31 Jan 2015 at 19:55

I think I'm the only person on this forum with a worse track record with Hondas

ChrisD. · 1 Feb 2015 at 11:17

The timing chain issue is a known problem on the K20.

Vita · 1 Feb 2015 at 11:32

rjk · 1 Feb 2015 at 12:38

If they were just checking VC then I doubt they would have inspected the chain etc at all.

Dont give the Honda garage more credit than they deserve when they probably just did the bare minimum

Simon · 1 Feb 2015 at 12:45

S2KIP said:
The timing chain issue is a known problem on the K20.

What is the issue with timing chains? 'Stretching' (aka wear)

ChrisD. · 1 Feb 2015 at 13:05

Simon said:
What is the issue with timing chains? 'Stretching' (aka wear)

Yes stretching, IIRC from around 80-100k mileage is the worry area, it is more common in cars that have had less oil changes or run low on oil.

There is a pic somewhere, I think on here, of the new vs the old, there is quite a bit of difference in length.

Vita · 2 Feb 2015 at 14:59

lemonade · 2 Feb 2015 at 15:40

Sounds like a right farce, as mentioned above the timing chain can stretch if oil is not changed regularly, basically the car is not maintained properly, and in all honesty if your tappets were so noisy it suggests car was probably not looked after well, but the chains do not spontaneously combust, its nearly always due to poor maintenance.

I still think it's something to do with the work carried out by the franchise dealer, if the chain had issues why did they not spot it since they would have been able to inspect it with the rocker off, plus if they used the crank bolt to turn the engine over they would have seen and heard this, a good mechanic can tell a chain issue by the noise they make, something a Honda mechanic would have been taught in the academy I would have thought!

If you want you can always get more opinions from other owners on club forums like Type R owners, where I think others have had the timing stretch problem and Honda Karma.com, few people who have rebuilt K20's, so you can get some more opinions there.

Vita · 2 Feb 2015 at 15:45

lemonade · 2 Feb 2015 at 16:04

Get on HondaKarma and Civinfo, i think TRO is probably not that active anymore? HK has some ex Honda guys and technicians.

and yeh they won't say much to avoid taking liability. If the car is well maintained and has recorded history then you have some back up to your claims, a chain doesn't fail on its own and when the car is well maintained, if Honda say this is a life time item then it should last a lifetime. If the franchise dealer are saying its because of the chain, get on them and Honda UK.

sityeuropa · 2 Feb 2015 at 17:16

My chain had stretched at 78k. Always kept it topped up with oil.

No pre warnings mechanically, just an engine management light came on the dash. If the timing chain was stretched you should get an error from the CKP sensor.

P0341 was my error.

ci_newman · 2 Feb 2015 at 17:25

Vita said:
I did post on the type r owners forum but got no replies. I did state to him that if the timing chain was stretched they would have known when they got TDC to adjust the valves.

To be honest, he didn't have much to say to me. I think he even knows they're at fault.

EDIT: Service stamps every 10k in the service book. Plugs were changed at 60k miles. Car is now on 85k.

The service stamps are pretty irrelevant with oil levels, my DC5 was very good in terms of oil use but I'd still get through a 500ml bottle between services to keep it on the max. The worst offenders can use 500ml every few thousand miles