Tyre Nichols murder

Thekwango said:
I wouldn’t say this situation was by design, at least not the multiple conflicting instructions being shouted at him. I think at that point they were barely in control of themselves and were descending, frighteningly rapidly, into a baying blood thirsty mob rather than a group of police officers.

I wonder how any of us would respond in such a situation. Imagine being faced with an armed mob, being shouted multiple different orders, all while being physically restrained and assaulted which made complying with any orders even more difficult.
Would I run if the chance presented itself, or would I just try and do my best to comply and hope and pray they calmed down enough to not maybe beat me to death…..no idea, though I’d hope I had the presence of mind to at least do something…..reality, I’d probably pee myself and start crying. Wonder what outcome that would have prompted from them. Not a situation I’d ever hope to be in.
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Id like to think I would lay on the floor and let them cuff me, without struggle as fighting it rarely makes the situation better.
 
It very rapidly descends into madness. I'm not sure running is ever a good idea, however the US justice system has a very poor history when it comes to arrests and charges against people for no reason. Rock and a hard place which no one should ever have to experience in the first place...
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
I see we are hearing the "if only he hadn't resisted" excuses again. Maybe he didn't trust those cops (he couldn't have been more correct not to), maybe he didn't feel they had reason to detain him. The idea that citizens should just submit to the police regardless of the circumstances is bewildering. No one should want or accept living in such a society.
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I agree it’s not ‘right’ to live like that. But I’d rather submit and live than be ‘right’ and dead.
 
gingergundog said:
Id like to think I would lay on the floor and let them cuff me, without struggle as fighting it rarely makes the situation better.
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ordinarily i'd say the same.......but if you physically couldn't because of the actions of one of the others. what then? it'd be about this time i'd starting to panic and think there might be something untoward going on, it would also be about the same time my bladder would up and empty itself!!
 
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So “resisting arrest”, in this case, running away…and not swinging arms and fist and threatening a knife at the officers….but running away…justify the beating he took?

Enough to kill him?

Is that what I’m reading from people?

As opposed to catch him, cuff him and bring him in? Fair enough they tazed him for running in order to stop him but after he is tazed…why the beating?

I don’t get it, and why the repeated beating? For several minutes?

Because he ran…not because you are in danger, unless the officers thought he is the A Train from The Boys?

Yes I know it’s the States but is it police practice to kill men who run away? That’s the law now? Kill any that runs? Which legislation is that?

I know we all know there is no such a law and we know he is no threat to the public or the officers…do we think any of the officers thought they were in danger after he was cuffed? which is why they are all fired and all charged with 2nd degree murder. But why are some people saying “because he ran”…
 
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Meddling-Monk said:
I'd just like to point out:

A bear that absolute wants to attack you is NOT going to stop, EVER. Until you are dead. You can not reason with it. And it has no obligation to stop or any need to answer to any other authority afterwards.

US Police that is aggressive and brutal and just itching to break someone IS however going to stop at some point, else they would be in the situation of the 5 now; Arrested themselves. They will need to answer at some point.

So the two examples you've provided do not equate and the advice to not to "resist arrest" is still valid given the circumstances. (US Police, known aggresive, trigger happy, bad idea to give them reason to escalate things further).
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You miss the purpose of my comparison. You made a point about pre-thought, I was pointing out that sudden, dramataic/violent encounters can put pause to such pre-thought.

Meddling-Monk said:
And as for what is classed as "resisting arrest", that's not down to you or me. But the US Police at the time (and doing a runner is seeing as resisting arrest). Again, all they need is justification to go further with the force they can use. And if you give them that justification, then that outcome (whatever it is) is really on you doing the scarpering.
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They were assaulting him, he is more than legally justified to run. You're bordering on apologist territory with that statement.
 
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Thekwango said:
ordinarily i'd say the same.......but if you physically couldn't because of the actions of one of the others. what then? it'd be about this time i'd starting to panic and think there might be something untoward going on, it would also be about the same time my bladder would up and empty itself!!
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You could be right, maybe instinct and adrenalin kicks in, and then panic. Hard to say for sure from the video.
 
Raymond Lin said:
So “resisting arrest”, in this case, running away…and not swinging arms and fist and threatening a knife at the officers….but running away…justify the beating he took?

Enough to kill him?

Is that what I’m reading from people?

As opposed to catch him, cuff him and bring him in? Fair enough they tazed him for running in order to stop him but after he is tazed…why the beating?

I don’t get it, and why the repeated beating? For several minutes?

Because he ran…not because you are in danger, unless the officers thought he is the A Train from The Boys?

Yes I know it’s the States but is it police practice to kill men who run away? That’s the law now? Kill any that runs? Which legislation is that?

I know we all know there is no such a law and we know he is no threat to the public or the officers…do we think any of the officers thought they were in danger after he was cuffed? which is why they are all fired and all charged with 2nd degree murder. But why are some people saying “because he ran”…
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Authoritarians: well let me tell you something son, see ...
 
Raymond Lin said:
So “resisting arrest”, in this case, running away…and not swinging arms and fist and threatening a knife at the officers….but running away…justify the beating he took?

Enough to kill him?

Is that what I’m reading from people?

As opposed to catch him, cuff him and bring him in? Fair enough they tazed him for running in order to stop him but after he is tazed…why the beating?

I don’t get it, and why the repeated beating? For several minutes?

Because he ran…not because you are in danger, unless the officers thought he is the A Train from The Boys?

Yes I know it’s the States but is it police practice to kill men who run away? That’s the law now? Kill any that runs? Which legislation is that?

I know we all know there is no such a law and we know he is no threat to the public or the officers…do we think any of the officers thought they were in danger after he was cuffed? which is why they are all fired and all charged with 2nd degree murder. But why are some people saying “because he ran”…
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No one is saying that what they are doing is justified. There is no course of action leading up to what happened that would justify it. It’s simply a case of if you play stupid games, then you increase the chance of winning stupid prizes.

If I were getting pulled over by the cops I would do every thing they say and I would not run away from them because we all know the stupid **** American cops do. If you want to think of it as a probability then it’s something like this. Chance of you getting killed in a traffic stop by cops: 0.001%, if you are black: 0.01%, if you decide to run away from the cops when they are trying to detain you: 10%. There are decisions you can make that will increase or decrease the likelihood of death, try to do everything you can to decrease it.

I’m making the numbers up but you get the point. Don’t make things worse for yourself. You shouldn’t have to take a beating, you shouldn’t have to get barked at by overly aggressive and stupid cops, and this man did not deserve to be killed for what he did. But you should still do everything you could to not get yourself killed. So you should do everything they say and not run away.

I know… it shouldn’t be like this. It shouldn’t happen, it’s not right. But there’s no point being ‘right’ if you’re dead.
 
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bigup said:
This is what I don’t ******* get! They’re holding his hands back so they can punch the living daylights out of his head, all while screaming ‘gimme your hands’.

I feel physically sick watching this.
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See stuff like that all the time with American police. Another one I remember is a guy simultaneously being told to put his hands on his head and behind his back.
 
Mason- said:
No one is saying that what they are doing is justified. There is no course of action leading up to what happened that would justify it. It’s simply a case of play stupid games and win stupid prizes.

If I were getting pulled over by the cops I would do every thing they say and I would not run away from them because we all know the stupid **** American cops do. If you want to think of it as a probability then it’s something like this. Chance of you getting killed in a traffic stop by cops: 0.001%, if you are black: 0.01%, if you decide to run away from the cops when they are trying to detain you: 10%.

I’m making the numbers up but you get the point. Don’t make things worse for yourself. You shouldn’t have to take a beating, you shouldn’t have to get barked at by overly aggressive and stupid cops, and this man did not deserve to be killed for what he did. But you should still do everything you could to not get yourself killed. So you should do everything they say and not run away.
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so you are saying running away gives police the right to beat you to death? Give them the right to be the judge, the jury and executioner because you ran?

Running = death

And that is allowed in the US? Which law is that?

Or is it unwritten…because it’s expected…right? Got it. If you run, you die. As opposed to getting arrested and let the law decide the punishment, the police has the licence to kill in that instance.

We know that’s not true, he did not deserve any of it.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
So “resisting arrest”, in this case, running away…and not swinging arms and fist and threatening a knife at the officers….but running away…justify the beating he took?

Enough to kill him?

Is that what I’m reading from people?

As opposed to catch him, cuff him and bring him in? Fair enough they tazed him for running in order to stop him but after he is tazed…why the beating?

I don’t get it, and why the repeated beating? For several minutes?

Because he ran…not because you are in danger, unless the officers thought he is the A Train from The Boys?

Yes I know it’s the States but is it police practice to kill men who run away? That’s the law now? Kill any that runs? Which legislation is that?

I know we all know there is no such a law and we know he is no threat to the public or the officers…do we think any of the officers thought they were in danger after he was cuffed? which is why they are all fired and all charged with 2nd degree murder. But why are some people saying “because he ran”…
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Not sure about anyone else but I thought maybe he was resisting arrest at the start by his car, after that when they caught up with him again its hard to say how it unfolded due to poor vid quality. When they have him cuffs its obviously abhorrent what they are subjecting him to.
 
Meddling-Monk said:
I know it sounds heartless here, but that's not what I'm aiming for, only the logical processing of the situation and why the "do not resist arrest" remains a good idea even when being attacked here if you are in the US. Because the alternative is almost guaranteed a "worse" outcome.
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Sitting in a safe armchair, trying to solve this like it’s some logic problem isn’t really helpful or practically useful.

Where you’re approached by 5x police officers, who are physically assaulting you, screaming conflicting commands at you, whilst beating you senseless - isn’t going to be solved by simply saying the victim should have done X or Y.

Such a situation is horrendously messy, frightening, dangerous and out of control.

It’s unreasonable to expect civilian citizens or general members of the public, to make good/correct decisions when they’re being dragged from their cars have having the **** kicked out of them, by people who are paid to serve and protect them.
 
Good news guys...

kindai said:
Reign the hyperbole in.

Ive genuinely seen much worse show up in my twitter feed.
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Turns out it wasn't a big deal after all..

Not sure why everyone is so upset about it, our mod seems to think it was nothing more than "an arrest that got out of hand" :rolleyes:
 
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