UEFA Euro 2012 - Quarter-finals - ** spoilers **

til the players can learn how to pass a ball we're stuffed any which way.

i'd be embarrassed with some of those passes from an u12 side let alone internationals.

we don't possess the pace or passing ability to play counter attacking football.

we we're lucky to get out of the groups due to the poor finishing of the other sides, and our luck ran out against italy.
 
Carroll didn't really do a lot, we had several threatening set pieces after he came on and he wasn't anywhere near any of them. I think he's the 'grass is always greener' in this case. It's easy to say "Oh well Carroll (or in the past Defoe) would have fed of these balls/crosses".
 
england were terrible, italy done the same thing 4 years ago played for penalties against spain and we lost in the end we got what we deserved that game, england didn't play football blame goes on the manager for me, u need to be extremely lucky to win with those kind of tactics like we saw with chelsea in the CL they rode their luck, englands luck just ran out they were just shocking.
 
Rooney hurt us tonight, not all his fault as he looked plainly unfit, but he stopped a lot of our attacks with tired, aimless passes or just hesitation. More importantly he (and Welbeck when they swapped) spent the whole game 5 or 10 yards from Pirlo, when a bit more running and effort to get closer would have stopped him turning on the ball countless times.

Other than that I think it's a shame Milner and Young both started, I thought Chamberlain was a good choice tonight, and we were very poor at switching from defence to attack, when we won the ball back we struggled to get out of the immediate area and it just led to us falling further back, but that's the same old problem, quick passing through our midfield is a real problem.

That all said, Italy are a better team with better players so it's no real surprise or disappointment
 
England were of course poor and the better team won. It's unproductive to blame the manager again (the real problem is the players ability) but i don't think Roy had a great game, taking off one of our better players on the night (Welbeck), failing to remove Young/Rooney and not seemingly desperate to change the flow of the game by changing anything of note.
Looking for positives from the tournament, I thought Welbeck did generally well with no service, Johnson played much better than I expected and Cole was typically solid.
For the future, a fit Rooney and Wilshere should help but imo the immediate priority should be in sorting out the Carrick situation and getting him in the team. He's not a Xavi and he wouldn't have turned tonight's loss into a win but he remains one of Englands best 2 CM's and it's a waste him sitting it out.
 
Yeah it was wrong to take Welbeck off, Rooney was obviously wrecked, but if he took Rooney off and we lost in normal time he would have been heavy criticised. Welbeck should feel gutted though, he still had a part to play
 
Presenter on talksport said "cmon, let's be positive, england didn't lose to anyone". That's true, they didn't lose any of their matches in actual matchplay, and the penalties really come down to luck. The problem is, england may be decent in not losing games, but where is the mentality and skill to win them? They spend more time in their own half defending their goal instead of spending time in the oppositions half, keeping possession and creating opportunities to score goals. These are multi million pound players who make school boy mistakes on a regular basis. There's no excuse. Gerrard gets interviewed and says Italy are a great team. No they're not, they're average and England are even more average. Just goes to prove that in internationals with teams like chelsea, english players can win when supported by foreign players, but when it comes to an all english side, they're absolutely nowhere. Not worth the paper their wages are written on.
 
Mattey1 said:
Don't know what game you were watching at all.

Also it makes me laugh when people say these players have no ability, Then how the heck do they play in arguably the best league in the world for some of the top teams in the world? This one perplexes me totally.
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he was ****e. wow, he headed the ball to someone about twice in total....apart from that utterly wasteful with the ball, hes got two left feet and absolutely zero amount of skill. He was horrific, along with rooney and co.

Welbeck was better in the air than carroll today.
 
Merlin5 said:
Gerrard gets interviewed and says Italy are a great team. No they're not, they're average and England are even more average.
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Going to pull you up on this. Italy are average....next to what exactly? Do you know the meaning of the word? They're easily amongst the top teams in Europe. It's not the best Italy team we've seen but take out Balotelli and add in a quality goalscorer like Rossi and they would be a very capable side.
 
I think roy did well with what he had, my only gripes are not seeing more of the ox and any of defoe :/
I think if roy really wants to move engand forward he has to play the youngsters even if we play poorly in 2014 i would expect allot of the youngsters to have become quality players for 2016.

Dont see anyone beating spain no matter how poor they were against croatia :/
 
Italy were unlucky not to beat Spain in the first group game.

On reflection I'm glad we've gone out because looking at it now all four remaining teams are good enough to win the tournament, we went out at the stage we deserved to go out.

Now we have two mouth watering semi finals to look forward to.
 
Italy should really have put that game to bed long before the painful, drawn out conclusion that was the penalty shoot out.

Heart breaking to lose on penalties, but the actual defeat was nothing more then England deserved.

England have been nothing other then average throughout the competition and were fortunate to get past Ukraine in the final game.

Not sure how Terry got man of the match, Gerrard for me personally and over all throughout the tournament was England's best player.
 
Shamikebab said:
Going to pull you up on this. Italy are average....next to what exactly? Do you know the meaning of the word? They're easily amongst the top teams in Europe. It's not the best Italy team we've seen but take out Balotelli and add in a quality goalscorer like Rossi and they would be a very capable side.
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Then presumably you must think England are very good? Because from what I saw, both teams played about the same standard, and neither did well enough to score a goal.

edit: Granted, Italy had better possession than England and a few more chances at goal, but still made tons of mistakes, just like England.

"Italy are average....next to what exactly?" Next to the likes of Portugal, Spain and Germany.
 
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mrjagga said:
he was ****e. wow, he headed the ball to someone about twice in total....apart from that utterly wasteful with the ball, hes got two left feet and absolutely zero amount of skill. He was horrific, along with rooney and co.

Welbeck was better in the air than carroll today.
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So you were watching the complete wrong game then.

# MP T DW ADW
22 Danny Welbeck 60 33 46.2% 50.0% -


9 Andy Carroll 60 42 42.9% 100% 1


# Shirt Number MP Minutes Played T Touches DW Duels Won (%) ADW Aerial Duels Won (%) I Interceptions


Yep Welbeck was clearly better in the air wasn't he? :p His passing wasn't great but saying he was shocking in the air is a joke imo.
 
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Mattey1 said:
So you were watching the complete wrong game then.

# MP T DW ADW
22 Danny Welbeck 60 33 46.2% 50.0% -


9 Andy Carroll 60 42 42.9% 100% 1


# Shirt Number MP Minutes Played T Touches DW Duels Won (%) ADW Aerial Duels Won (%) I Interceptions


Yep Welbeck was clearly better in the air wasn't he? :p His passing wasn't great but saying he was shocking in the air is a joke imo.
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He was still rubbish, didnt contribute nothing to the game on englands side. He didn't trouble italy once, he didnt make them worry or give them anything different to think about at all. his hold up play bar one or two occasions was terrible. That is FACT.

ps ADW 100% 1. he won 1 aerial duel, is that what your trying to tell me?
 
mrjagga said:
He was still rubbish, didnt contribute nothing to the game on englands side. He didn't trouble italy once, he didnt make them worry or give them anything different to think about at all. his hold up play bar one or two occasions was terrible. That is FACT.

ps ADW 100% 1. he won 1 aerial duel, is that what your trying to tell me?
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No that is 1 interception.

He won 100% of the aerial duels, basically every ball Hart kicked to him he won, Just no one was even close to him so he could pass it on.

I find no fact in your opinion sorry.
 
I think that means he won 100% of the aerial duels and 1 interception. Here is where SUBJECTIVE stats become irrelevant, he absolutely 100% certainly did not win 100% of the aerial duels, he lost at least 2 to Pirlo, at least, and he lost a couple others as well.

The problem with subjective stats is that no two people will watch a game and get the subjective stats the same, one guy says Carroll didn't jump so it wasn't an aerial duel, another guy says, he leaned into him, tried to make him miss it so the ball came to him, and failed so he failed an aerial duel. 50/50's of any kind, "duels", interceptions are all utterly subjective and completely pointless, as are losing and regaining possession stats. Someone blasts a ball in at max power to someone 5 yards away, gets a touch on the ball but it gets away with them, some people will mark that down as losing possession some will mark it down as a failed pass, some will mark it down as neither.

The only thing I can say for certain is Carroll didn't win every high ball he went to win the ball from (jumping or not) and he didn't win every high ball he jumped to try and win.

The young gets kicked in the face foul(against Carroll) one guy jumps for the ball, Carroll runs over, barges him, sends him flying into Young, it goes down as one more foul, not a failed aerial duel, when it SHOULD go in both.

Subjective stats are... meh.
 
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