Poll: UEFA Euro 2020 Final Italy v England ** spoilers ** [Sunday 11th July 2021]

Shall we lock this thread for the 90 minutes the game is on?

  • Yes

    Votes: 94 43.1%

  • No

    Votes: 124 56.9%
  • Total voters
    218
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Not open for further replies.
Jimbeam3678 said:
I honestly believe Southgate deserves far more credit than people on here are giving him.
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Tricky one for me - to put a squad together like this, within the time, etc. pressures of the tournament and so on and to get even to the quarter-finals takes a ton of skill and dedication even with brilliant players and he has produced a well drilled machine for the most part. There aren't a lot of people who could do that.

On the other hand though as someone else put it he far too often falls back on a turgid setup and seems to be one of those with an ideology that you always play your best practised game which can result in losing badly to a team that you should easily beat but just happen to have a good counter to your setup for some reason because of a refusal to change things up even when everyone else can see it isn't working - I really don't want to see a loss with desperate substitutions 70 minutes after it is obvious to everyone else it isn't working.

England's best games have been when things like COVID have forced his hand and with things changed up a bit we've had a disruptive impact on the game preventing other teams settling into the game as all to often happens with his favoured approaches.

We have the players to win this - IMO a lot depends now on whether Southgate has the daring to win this.
 
Rroff said:
Tricky one for me - to put a squad together like this, within the time, etc. pressures of the tournament and so on and to get even to the quarter-finals takes a ton of skill and dedication even with brilliant players and he has produced a well drilled machine for the most part. There aren't a lot of people who could do that.

On the other hand though as someone else put it he far too often falls back on a turgid setup and seems to be one of those with an ideology that you always play your best practised game which can result in losing badly to a team that you should easily beat but just happen to have a good counter to your setup for some reason because of a refusal to change things up even when everyone else can see it isn't working - I really don't want to see a loss with desperate substitutions 70 minutes after it is obvious to everyone else it isn't working.

England's best games have been when things like COVID have forced his hand and with things changed up a bit we've had a disruptive impact on the game preventing other teams settling into the game as all to often happens with his favoured approaches.

We have the players to win this - IMO a lot depends now on whether Southgate has the daring to win this.
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What a load of rubbish, there is no "On the other hand". Southgate has been brilliant in the Euro's, those so called turgid setups? have beaten a decent Germany side that swept the defending champions away, which included Ronaldo, Jota and Fernandes, and finished off the Danes.

We're in our first Euro final ever, conceded one goal so far, still that isn't good enough, gimme a break! :rolleyes:
 
mysticsniper said:
What a load of rubbish, there is no "On the other hand". Southgate has been brilliant in the Euro's, those so called turgid setups? have beaten a decent Germany side that swept the defending champions away, which included Ronaldo, Jota and Fernandes, and finished off the Danes.

We're in our first Euro final ever, conceded one goal so far, still that isn't good enough, gimme a break!
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Those games we did well against Germany and Ukraine were despite of Southgate not because - he was forced to change things up due to external factors like players having to isolate, injury concerns, etc. the result was a much more disruptive setup, but then with Denmark again he mostly fell back into what he as doing before which struggled with the likes of Scotland. We should have walked past Denmark instead he made things harder than they needed to be.

Funny how people suddenly change their tune when we are doing well - wasn't that long ago you were critical of Southgate all of a sudden he is so wonderful...
 
Saka v Germany happened by accident. Covid isolation of Mount and Chilwell (?) forcing his hand. Anyone who thinks he's perfect look at the Scotland match. No answer to mix it up and change the result. He didn't even use all of our subs. Just sat watching the stalemate play out as Scotland got more and more bold in their attack. Had they had a decent finisher Scotland would probably have won the match. I'm not saying he hasn't achieved anything, we are in the final, but it doesn't mean he's a genius with all the answers and tactical nous for every situation. He does seem slow to adapt during games and reluctant to use subs early to get an impact. As the debate a few days ago, it does sometimes seem we've got here despite the tactics of Southgate. Like subbing off grealish etc
 
ik9000 said:
Saka v Germany happened by accident. Covid isolation of Mount and Chilwell (?) forcing his hand. Anyone who thinks he's perfect look at the Scotland match. No answer to mix it up and change the result. He didn't even use all of our subs. Just sat watching the stalemate play out as Scotland got more and more bold in their attack. Had they had a decent finisher Scotland would probably have won the match. I'm not saying he hasn't achieved anything, we are in the final, but it doesn't mean he's a genius with all the answers and tactical nous for every situation. He does seem slow to adapt during games and reluctant to use subs early to get an impact. As the debate a few days ago, it does sometimes seem we've got here despite the tactics of Southgate. Like subbing off grealish etc
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It is kind of funny - not that long ago people were calling him tactically inept, etc. after the Scotland game and so on - now suddenly he can do no wrong and is "brilliant" because of where we've got...

If you take a step back the best England performances by a mile where the games his hand was forced and when things returned to something closer to normal service we got the Denmark game...

While I've not been involved with something like this I've been part of high skill level esport tournaments so have a good idea just how much he has had to achieve as a coach to get England this far but he needs his hand to be forced to really achieve greatness.
 
labbby said:
lol:D
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There is a lot I do understand - taking a dozen players and training for a tournament, theory crafting/strategising - stuff like identifying strengths and weaknesses of opponents, etc., training disciplines like game management, being able to actually have awareness of what you are seeing - breaking down the details for instance actually thinking about what weapon your opponent is equipped with and how they'd use it, etc. all the effort that goes into practising, preparing for and playing out tournament matches over multiple days and all the pressure that goes with that including the skills to coach in real time under pressure. Dealing with more trivial stuff like interpersonal issues which might get in the way.

I can appreciate the calibre it takes to get as far as Southgate has - probably better than a lot of people.
 
Lysander said:
Voted yes SO WE JUST WATCH THE DAMN GAME.

In the semi-final my wife got annoyed at me for continually checking the OCUK thread. Just lock this one and then open it after.
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So lock threads just because you have no self control? Continue this into premiership day threads and FA cup final too? Or the boxing thread?

Utter nonsense closing a thread because the MODs don't want to moderate it while the games on. Find a mod that hates football :p
 
Let’s be honest the group game performances were pretty poor, Scotland especially but we’ve grown into the tournament and the knockout games we’ve played some good stuff.

Football is a results business primarily and Southgate has done what he’s needed to do to get the job done, can’t deny him that.
 
McBain said:
Let’s be honest the group game performances were pretty poor, Scotland especially but we’ve grown into the tournament and the knockout games we’ve played some good stuff.

Football is a results business primarily and Southgate has done what he’s needed to do to get the job done, can’t deny him that.
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Yep and it's not like at times Italy, Spain, France, Belgium etc didn't look poor too. People expect perfection. Particularly on here you can see who people support too from who they talk up and who should play. I don't like the set up and style of football but if he gets the job done when so many higher paid and rated managers have failed it's hard to complain. I blame Henderson. If he had been fit we would not been playing two DM in such a negative fashion. :p
 
Brother just sent me a photo of his 2 tickets. He won them a while back in his work raffle, turns out they are rather sort after now. He will be in the VW lounge enjoying the game.

Caused some upset in the family because he’s taking his wife as the +1 and not one of my brothers who loves football. He doesn’t even follow football himself outside of England games!
 
LiE said:
Brother just sent me a photo of his 2 tickets. He won them a while back in his work raffle, turns out they are rather sort after now. He will be in the VW lounge enjoying the game.

Caused some upset in the family because he’s taking his wife as the +1 and not one of my brothers who loves football. He doesn’t even follow football himself outside of England games!
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Happy wife, happy life :D
Also why would this cause some upset in the family? It would cause way more problem if he picked X person, the others would complain plus the wife.
 
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My thoughts leading up to the game:

If the players are as nervy in the first 15 minutes as they were against Denmark, Italy will punish us. We can’t afford for the defence (and Pickford especially) to be making silly mistakes again.

Italy’s midfield are pacy and they’re fast and accurate with their passing. They don’t mind playing into feet while marked and they move the ball around nicely. This was evident in the game against Spain. We need to find an answer to this or they’re going to run rings around us.

In the three knock-out matches so far, we’ve created some really good chances. I can’t tell if we failed to score against Denmark because their defence was so much stronger than Ukraine (and Germany) or if our boys were having an off-night. Schmeichel did play a blinder of course.

If we can get behind their defence I think we can create goal-scoring opportunities. It’s just that relies on us getting past their midfield in the first place. We also need the forwards who played against Ukraine to show up and not the ones who played against Denmark. :D

I think we have the potential to win. I’m cautiously optimistic, but it really depends on which team shows up on the night.
 
ik9000 said:
Saka v Germany happened by accident. Covid isolation of Mount and Chilwell (?) forcing his hand. Anyone who thinks he's perfect look at the Scotland match. No answer to mix it up and change the result. He didn't even use all of our subs. Just sat watching the stalemate play out as Scotland got more and more bold in their attack. Had they had a decent finisher Scotland would probably have won the match. I'm not saying he hasn't achieved anything, we are in the final, but it doesn't mean he's a genius with all the answers and tactical nous for every situation. He does seem slow to adapt during games and reluctant to use subs early to get an impact. As the debate a few days ago, it does sometimes seem we've got here despite the tactics of Southgate. Like subbing off grealish etc
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This is nonsense.

He totally changed our shape against Germany. Had he just wanted to bring someone in to replace Mount he could have done, but he changed the whole shape and we won.

Yes, Scotland was poor but no manager or team is perfect and we didn't lose. Pep, Klopp, even Ferguson in his day don't get things right every match. Fine, bad day at the office, squeak out with a point, move on.

Are you talking about subbing Grealish off against Denmark? We controlled the game brilliantly after that. 2-1 up in extra time and they barely touched the ball. What more do you want?!

Football is a results game. We are getting results. Is everything perfect? No. But nothing ever is, and tournament football is about overcoming poor performances with a result as much as it is about playing fantastic football.
 
manic111 said:
Are you talking about subbing Grealish off against Denmark? We controlled the game brilliantly after that.
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What? We were controlling the game before that! They didn't have any of the ball at all, then he changed things and sat back and let them have it. We were just lucky that Denmark were completely winded. One lucky cross or set piece and it would have changed things completely.
 
Drangueos said:
Happy wife, happy life :D
Also why would this cause some upset in the family? It would cause way more problem if he picked X person, the others would complain plus the wife.
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He only has 1 brother who actually follows football. I don’t for example. I’d definitely leave my wife at home :D
 
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