UEFA Euro 2024 Final Spain v England ** spoilers ** [Sunday 14th July 2024]

spudbynight said:
What you describe as “doing the right thing” is contentious.

Many people don’t think Southgate was doing the right thing at all and didn’t agree with his lecturing approach to non football issues.
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I don't remember anything being contentious apart from the taking a knee and hat was the players choice not Southgate's all he did was take the pathetic media flack for it. I don't really remember him lecturing anyone either just answering questions put to him or making statements to protect the players but then I guess everyone hears things differently. Personally I'd much rather someone in such a high profile role use it to address relevant high profile issues rather than hand wave things away with 'I'm just focussed on football' platitudes, everyone with a platform has a responsibility to use it for good.
 
adidan said:
Anybody mention Hasselbaink?

He's currently assistant coach with England and I wouldn't be surprised if attacking subs had some of his input in them already.
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You can get 100/1 on him at the minute so it doesn't seem likely! I would have thought if the FA are going to go with a foreigner it will have to be someone high profile to justify overlook available English options which I would agree with, I loved Jimmy as a player but as a manager he barely any better qualified than Carsley with a string of managerial failures on his CV to date.
 
a1ex2001 said:
I don't remember anything being contentious apart from the taking a knee and hat was the players choice not Southgate's all he did was take the pathetic media flack for it. I don't really remember him lecturing anyone either just answering questions put to him or making statements to protect the players but then I guess everyone hears things differently. Personally I'd much rather someone in such a high profile role use it to address relevant high profile issues rather than hand wave things away with 'I'm just focussed on football' platitudes, everyone with a platform has a responsibility to use it for good.
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Can you imagine someone like Ferguson letting players take the knee before matches. I thought the whole taking the knee thing was embarrassing, its elite sport not a political platform, in 2022 world cup vs the USA we had England taking the knee while the USA players stood their looking bemused.
 
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Joxeon said:
Can you imagine someone like Ferguson letting players take the knee before matches. I thought the whole taking the knee thing was embarrassing, its elite sport not a political platform, in 2022 world cup vs the USA we had England taking the knee while the USA players stood their looking bemused.
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No but Alex Fergusson used to get upset about his players choice of wives, he was a dinosaur back then and even more so now I seriously doubt his approach would work well in todays game players hold too much power. You may think it is embarrassing but you were not asked to do it, the players wanted to take the knee so Southgate supported them which is the right thing to do as far as I'm concerned. If the manager bans it then you have an instant rift between him and the a large chunk of the players for absolutely zero gain on the playing side, do you or anyone else seriously believe England would have won more games if they didn't take the knee how ridiculous. I would also support anyone with a platform to use it for good, Marcus Rashford is a prime example of a player using the platform his fame gives him for the good of others.
 
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Joxeon said:
Can you imagine someone like Ferguson letting players take the knee before matches. I thought the whole taking the knee thing was embarrassing, its elite sport not a political platform, in 2022 world cup vs the USA we had England taking the knee while the USA players stood their looking bemused.
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Three of their black teammates were literally abused for the colour of their skin (not to mention the racism they've coped with their entire lives) and you think it's embarrassing that they support that cause? There is nothing political about it, it's basic human decency.
 
Joxeon said:
Southgate took over after Hodgson, Had 8 years in charge to build and perfect a system for the team, had a far better squad yet his win % is less than 1% better than Hodgsons.
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I don't really understand your metric because what was the other 99%? Does that mean if he got 2% further he'd have won the competition? What's the percentage improvement for winning 2 out of the last 3 penalty shoot-outs compared to what percentage of the ones we've lost?
 
Karl said:
I don't really understand your metric because what was the other 99%? Does that mean if he got 2% further he'd have won the competition? What's the percentage improvement for winning 2 out of the last 3 penalty shoot-outs compared to what percentage of the ones we've lost?
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You're talking to someone who probably never liked Southgate and/or wanted him gone years ago. Also someone who thinks the FA will go from him to Klopp or someone like Ruben Amirom.
 
Karl said:
I don't really understand your metric because what was the other 99%? Does that mean if he got 2% further he'd have won the competition? What's the percentage improvement for winning 2 out of the last 3 penalty shoot-outs compared to what percentage of the ones we've lost?
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I think Southgate is a worse manager than Hodgson tactically but had the better individual players to bail him out which is why despite this the overall win percentage is very similar.
 
Shamikebab said:
Three of their black teammates were literally abused for the colour of their skin (not to mention the racism they've coped with their entire lives) and you think it's embarrassing that they support that cause? There is nothing political about it, it's basic human decency.
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Just saying that teams like Argentina, Brazil, Spain and Germany turn up at tournaments and focus on their football rather than grandstanding on other issues.
 
Joxeon said:
Just saying that teams like Argentina, Brazil, Spain and Germany turn up at tournaments and focus on their football rather than grandstanding on other issues.
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It’s not grandstanding it is a group of young men using the platform that football gives them to draw attention to an issue that matters to them. It’s far more important than a game that in the grand scheme of things doesn’t actually matter and a something we should applaud in an era when too many young men are making headline news for the wrong reasons.
 
a1ex2001 said:
It’s not grandstanding it is a group of young men using the platform that football gives them to draw attention to an issue that matters to them. It’s far more important than a game that in the grand scheme of things doesn’t actually matter and a something we should applaud in an era when too many young men are making headline news for the wrong reasons.
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Its slacktivism. Its better than doing nothing but not by much. They are happy to take oil money, they are happy to play in Qatar, they are privileged beyond belief and could use their platform and wealth to do so much. Its just much easier and cheaper to take a knee than actually do something. For some reason I don't really put much stock in people who take the knee, black out their profile picture on twitter and other such performative action. If you care, put your money where your mouth is. Plenty do but far far more don't.
 
omnomnom said:
Im not sure Argentina are a good example to use tbh.
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Or Spain, who still have huge problems with racist abuse from the stands in their league and, of course, the incident with Rubiales kissing Hermoso.

England's focus at the tournament was all about the football, so I have no idea what he means by grandstanding on other issues.

It seems to be that lazy narrative again: England bad, other nations good.
 
Mr Jack said:
Southgate's record speaks for itself. He may not have produced enjoyable football to watch, but he did exceptionally well. We will soon miss him.
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Only in this country do we accept losing 2 finals in a row as doing "exceptionally well".

He did better than most England managers but had zero return out of what is generally regarded as one of the strongest squads ever available to an England manager.
 
Mint8 said:
Only in this country do we accept losing 2 finals in a row as doing "exceptionally well".

He did better than most England managers but had zero return out of what is generally regarded as one of the strongest squads ever available to an England manager.
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Is the aim to win trophies or just to "do well".

Even if it's the latter, did we even do well...
 
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Mint8 said:
Only in this country do we accept losing 2 finals in a row as doing "exceptionally well".

He did better than most England managers but had zero return out of what is generally regarded as one of the strongest squads ever available to an England manager.
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Is the aim to win trophies or just to "do well"?

Even if it's the latter, did we even do well...
 
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