Poll: UK Gun Laws

[SpellowHouse]

Epsom College head called relative before she was shot by husband

Police recover a firearm owned by George Pattison who officers believe killed his wife and daughter.

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm sure this isn't the first case here where similar has happened.


Is there a case to be made for the removal of all guns from civilians?

Or perhaps if I word it another way, is there a legitimate case for a civilian to own a gun?

I can't see any argument that couldn't be resolved by a professional services who undergo tight control and yearly vetting etc.


Is there a case for guns to remain accessible to civilians?

I agree.
There is no place in the UK for guns.
There are only two uses for them. Target practice as a hobby and pest elimination. The latter should be handled by trained professionals and former, well, if we even if we allow that, then all guns should be owned and kept by the ranges and never allowed off the property.
I am not in favour of a nanny state at all, but there is no practical reason for the average person to have a gun in this country. It seems to me to be utter insanity that we outright ban traditional paint stripper but we only regulate guns.

 

[Maple Leaf]

There is a case for making checks more often than every five years when you apply for a new cert, but iirc there now needs to be a doctors mental health assessment before the issue of a licence. Not that someone couldn't go off the rails just afterwards of course.

If someone suspects that a SGC/FAC holder is mentally ill, or has committed acts of violence, then all they have to do is contact the local Police (or possibly just their GP) and make a report and that person's SGC/FAC will be suspended pending an investigation and their firearms will be confiscated until its outcome. There was a lot of fallout for the Police after Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane spree-killer) retained his FAC and firearms even though there were complaints made to the Police about his violent behaviour:

The released documents revealed that in 1991, complaints against Hamilton were made to the Central Scotland Police and were investigated by the Child Protection Unit. He was reported to the Procurator Fiscal for consideration of ten charges, including assault, obstructing police and contravention of the Children and Young Persons Act 1937. No action was taken[28] and he retained his firearms certificate, despite these charges and accusations being lawful reasons for the police to have revoked his firearms certificate prior to the Dunblane tragedy. Source

Evidence of previous Police interactions with Hamilton was presented to the Cullen Inquiry but were later sealed under a closure order to prevent publication for 100 years, this led to accusations of a coverup intended to protect the reputations of officials who failed to act appropriately.

Give me a legitimate excuse for owning one or a use case where it is needed in this country.
Still waiting.

Round here farmers and people growing vegetables in their gardens have a real problem with rats and wood pigeons. Rats are neophobic and smart, they often ignore rat traps and are becoming resistant to many of the available poisons. Fencing in all your land to a high enough standard is usually not practicable, so shooting pests is still necessary in many cases.

 

[sidimmu]

I need one because I enjoy shooting them for sport and to kill rabbits on my land. People need to enjoy things so that's a need.

Before you say I shouldn't have one for sport as that's not a need, it's an Olympic sport. What about sports that involve bows and arrows? Shall we ban those too as there's no need for them and they could potentially be lethal?

Or you could deal with the rabbits on your land in a more suitable way to prevent reoccurrence.

 

[Mr Badger]

Yes, they are the allowed reasons for civilians having one. I could go out and kill more people in my car quicker than my shotgun. Ban cars just in case.

Just because you are a terrible driver doesn't mean that you should be allowed to own a gun as well.

 

[ZXSpectrum]

My only concern with UK firearms legislation is that when the apocalypse comes, where will I get a weapon to defend myself? My 1960s .22 Webley air-pistol isn't going to cut the mustard.

You need a Zombie Machete. Should be easy enough to get hold of, they seem to be in abundance around London.

I'm not slow. I grew up with guns and have done a lot of shooting. Anyway, 3 shells in the UK-spec autoloader. Up to 7 if you remove the block in the magazine tube (which I absolutely do not endorse anyone doing as that turns a legal shotgun in to a very illegal one).

In the Zombie Apocalypse there wouldn't be anyone to police what weapons you own..

 

[Allnamestaken]

Or you could deal with the rabbits on your land in a more suitable way to prevent reoccurrence.

We actively have to hunt and control populations of deer around Sizewell, hunters reguarly work with people on site to do this.
This happens all over the country its part of conservation, farmers have to control against certain animals on their land.

This requires rifles/shotguns depending on the situation. We do have reason for gun ownership in this country and its very well regulated.

 

[builder22]

Agreed.

if you have an issue with pests, maybe check and manage your boundaries first? Wonder how many want to control our boarders but won't put suitable fencing on their property.

u should start a business - Fences for Farmers

 

[Ayahuasca]

We actively have to hunt and control populations of deer around Sizewell

Agreed, the last thing we want is radioactive deer running around.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Agreed, the last thing we want is radioactive deer running around.

I know your joking lol, but they are very large populations its mostly conservation.

 

[ZXSpectrum]

Or you could deal with the rabbits on your land in a more suitable way to prevent reoccurrence.

You really sound like someone who has never visited/owned a farm/golf course or any other green space where rabbits are unfortunately a pest and culling them with a rifle is significantly more humane than pretty much any other method.

 

[SupraWez]

Gun ownership is pretty strict in the UK already, I will concede that strictness does vary from inner city to countryside, you also have the renewal process etc.

But you can just buy some pretty powerful crossbows without any license requirement, deadly and silent.

 

[Freefaller]

Wrong, those items have a legitimate use case for people across the entire country.
A gun does not.

Again, awaiting for legitimate reasons to own one.

I loathe the gun culture in America and how it has permeated a lot of western society.

However we have shooting clubs here in the UK and farmers need them for vermin and livestock protection.

Gun clubs for things such as clay pigeon shooting is perfectly reasonable. Or even target shooting. It's a sport and hobby.

Hunting is also perfectly legitimate. I wouldn't want to ban anyone from hunting.

That said part of me feels that the gun should be left locked up at a gun club perhaps with a log of who signs it out etc?

For farmers though there's no reasonable way of banning them from them.

From knowledge it's pretty thorough to get a gun licence with a lot of prerequisites

 

[Allnamestaken]

Gun ownership is pretty strict in the UK already, I will concede that strictness does vary from inner city to countryside, you also have the renewal process etc.

But you can just buy some pretty powerful crossbows without any license requirement, deadly and silent.

I would argue when you consider the state of fire arm ownership in the UK.

A compound bow of the type you are referring too are WAY MORE dangerous if used for some sort of mass casualty event.
Look at what happened in Europe a year or two ago with that bloke running around with one.

 

[sidimmu]

u should start a business - Fences for Farmers

Your nickname seems more appropriate for this than mine

We actively have to hunt and control populations of deer around Sizewell, hunters reguarly work with people on site to do this.
This happens all over the country its part of conservation, farmers have to control against certain animals on their land.

This requires rifles/shotguns depending on the situation. We do have reason for gun ownership in this country and its very well regulated.

Thank you for clarifying.
Surely traps and boundaries can be used to combat this though.

You really sound like someone who has never visited/owned a farm/golf course or any other green space where rabbits are unfortunately a pest and culling them with a rifle is significantly more humane than pretty much any other method.

Thanks for giving a justifiable reason, one of the only ones I've seen in this thread! Didnt appreciate the spice to go with it though. Traps could be used to combat this though surely?

That said part of me feels that the gun should be left locked up at a gun club perhaps with a log of who signs it out etc?

This is the part we should all focus on to control this.
There is a small amount of people who may require a gun to be on site and at the property. But for all those in the name of sport or fun, why should it come home with you?

 

[Feek]

Is there a case to be made for the removal of all guns from civilians?

No.

Or perhaps if I word it another way, is there a legitimate case for a civilian to own a gun?

Yes. Fun.

They're very strict, when it came to my last renewal time, I had to get a letter from my doctor because a few years before, I'd been prescribed antidepressants for a reason which was nothing due to depression and even though I didn't even cash in the prescription, they wanted evidence from the doctor that I was fit to hold a certificate.

Also, many, many years ago, my teenage daughter was arrested, then released without warning or charge and I got a phone call from my FLO a couple of days later asking me about it.

 

[Mr Badger]

Agreed, the last thing we want is radioactive deer running around.

It's the opening scene of Train to Busan!

 

[Allnamestaken]

Your nickname seems more appropriate for this than mine

Thank you for clarifying.
Surely traps and boundaries can be used to combat this though.

Thanks for giving a justifiable reason, one of the only ones I've seen in this thread! Didnt appreciate the spice to go with it though. Traps could be used to combat this though surely?

This is the part we should all focus on to control this.
There is a small amount of people who may require a gun to be on site and at the property. But for all those in the name of sport or fun, why should it come home with you?

No populations are in the thousands its not something a fence or traps are useful for. Deer are allowed to roam freely in the country for the most part. They are culled every now and then to control populations or they grow out of control (No natural predators). We don't hunt and eat them regularly and there aren't any wolves or the like. Traps are extremely inhumane in these kind of circumstances, a trapped buck will **** some **** up prob chew its own leg off.

Its all conservation, they cull a few hundred thousand a year.

 

[Freefaller]

No populations are in the thousands its not something a fence or traps are useful for. Deer are allowed to roam freely in the country for the most part. They are culled every now and then to control populations or they grow out of control.

And they're delicious.

 

[Allnamestaken]

And they're delicious.

Oh god yes!

 

[sidimmu]

No populations are in the thousands its not something a fence or traps are useful for. Deer are allowed to roam freely in the country for the most part. They are culled every now and then to control populations or they grow out of control (No natural predators). We don't hunt and eat them regularly and there aren't any wolves or the like.

Its all conservation, they cull a few hundred thousand a year.

thats fair but I presume there is a season to hunt them?
If so, whats the need for ownership of the gun all year round?