Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Danny75 said:
Good posts, Angela.

It was written by an expert in disinformation, that the secret or "trick" is to lie first. Then, it will be believed by a certain number of people, who will be extremely reluctant to change their minds about it, because their ego is tied in to that belief.

That is what is happening to some, who refuse to see the CIA/US State Department's hand in all this mess (along with corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs), because it contradicts what they have chosen to believe.
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Spot the irony.
 
Zethor said:
What exactly are half of them doing in a foreign country? If Ukraine has internal issues, Ukrainians should be solving them, not Russians and ex-ussr people!
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Ukrainians are ex-ussr people.

To try and use an analogy, imagine a war kicked off in Cornwall (I did say imagine :P) between ethnic celts and ethnic.. rest of England. Then other ethnic celts come to join the fight from Wales, Scotland, IoM, etc.
 
Danny75 said:
That is what is happening to some, who refuse to see the CIA/US State Department's hand in all this mess (along with corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs), because it contradicts what they have chosen to believe.
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What would the US have to gain though all this and what would Russia/Putin have to gain
 
KillBoY_UK said:
What would the US have to gain though all this and what would Russia/Putin have to gain
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Let me show you what your question/statement amounts to:

Man gets beaten up in your neighbourhood. Plenty of evidence surfaces but you don't bother looking at it. Meantime you ask others what the assaulter had to gain from it, disbelieving that he was responsible, while they wonder why you won't just look at the evidence first.

But anyway, in answer to your question, you can get the answer straight from the horse's mouth (US official policy on Ukraine for the past two decades at the very least). Because they have made no secret of the fact they consider Ukraine a vital chess piece that must be brought into the EU/NATO fold, and they have spent billions of dollars (according to Victoria Nuland herself) in order to achieve it. Washington actually seems to want Ukraine in the EU even more than the members of the EU itself want it.

Nuland (US Assistant Secretary of State) and the ex-US ambassador to Ukraine were recorded in a phone call intercept back in February 2014, prior to the ousting of Yanukovitch. They were plotting the coup and talking about who they wanted to take posts in the new government "if this thing takes off" (the coup). People like Nuland and the stark raving mad John McCain visited the "Maidan" to encourage them, handing out cookies and stuff. If you know anything about McCain, then you will know that most of the things he wants are bad for most people and only benefit a clique (weapons manufacturers etc).

But why? Here's where we can only guess at, unless one is a member of Washington's inner cabal. Obviously Sevastopol in Crimea would have been (and would still be) a great prize for them.

Also, corrupt governments (including the UK's) always "need" an outside enemy, to unite the people and them, or at least to provide the people with someone that they hate even more than their own government. To point the finger outside the country, away from all the banking scandals, unjust wars, police and paedophilia scandals etc etc. It's like the daily "two minute hate" in Orwell's 1984. Putin is the new Goldstein, demonized at every turn. And there's money in it too - new lucrative contracts for weapons manufacturers and "security" companies.

Then there's stuff like this - http://www.theguardian.com/business...ob-board-ukraine-biggest-gas-producer-burisma

Jobs for the boys, but also indicative of US interests in Ukraine energy. In fact, when Victoria Nuland declared they had spent billions of dollars to influence Ukraine, she did so at the "US-Ukraine Business Council" club in Washington last year, with a big board behind her with the names of the sponsors of the event:

ExxonMobil

Chevron
 
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Zethor said:
1)What exactly are half of them doing in a foreign country? If Ukraine has internal issues, Ukrainians should be solving them, not Russians and ex-ussr people!

2) If Cameron ordered his police force to open fire against his own people, slaughtering about 100 innocent unarmed civilians in the process, then yes, removing him - even with force - would be the right thing to do.

3) The only casulaties in Ukraine before Russia invaded the country were those that died due to Yanukovych's order. Even so, Ukraine started to sort that issue peacefully, there was no retaliation, no violence against former members of govt. , just their removal.

4) All the deaths that came aftewards, including the people in the plane, are a direct consequence of Russia's aggression, not people valiantly fighting for what they believe is theirs.
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1) They live there; ex-USSR or SV is union of 15 Countries and even more nations. They live and lived among each other for many years, even before WW2. Huge percentage of Ukrainians live in Russia, same Huge percentage of russians, Azerbaidzhan, Turkmenistan, etc. live in Ukraine and it's their country too!

2) Berkut opened fire not to attack people, but to protect Government, and they started to shoot only when crow started to atack!
Innocent and unarmed? most of them were extremists with supplied weapon!
Berkut is No1 Forces in Ukraine which have duty to Protect government from any attack!

3) RUSSIA INVADED? pardon me here?! if Russia wanted Ukraine they would not let it to be independent country back to 1990's.
What Russia can gain if invade Ukraine? debts and uncontrolled country which divided in 2 main sectors and 100's of criminal gangs including extremists, Nazis, etc.
If Russia wanted to, Ukraine would be taken within first week of violence.
There are Russian troops on borders with Ukraine (to monitor) and in some places like Crimes only because Minister of Crimea asked for support as they were scared that Kiev's troops will be deployed there to start attack. Russian troops are there, do they attack? is it huge army which was deployed to take Kiev? NO!

Peacefully sort problems? what kind of peace can it be when there are 50 000 people on one side of Kiev and same on other part of Kiev? At that point Violence was just matter of time, So while some Maidan politics like YAYCENUK were promising better life, some were preaching hatred! I heard this speeches and some politics are very extremists, in short words they were asking people to kill Russians, doesn't matter military or civilians: We need to get rid of Russians on our Land! it's funny, as I mentioned before huge percentages of Ukrainians live in Russia and other ex-USSR countries.

So when it went too far, they only needed to provoke people, there comes Sniper shootings, they blame Berkut? but snipers were shooting on both sides and casualties were among both sides too!

4) US and Kiev blamed pro-Russians within couple hours for plane crash! US stated that they have EVIDANCE! on press conference days after they DID NOT show any evidence. All they did was showed couple facebook pictures!

So what we can take from here? only 2 options: either Russians shot Plane or ...erm...no other option!
If they had proof like they said, they would showed them to the world on latest press conference! they did not!
They already know that it was not shot by pro-Russians, but they can not tell it to the world, how could they? if they blamed Russia within seconds after it happened without investigation...
(by the way does anyone know that Ukrainians shot Plane back to 2001 and President Kuchma claimed it was not them, after investigation were done, all facts stated that it was Ukraine, all president at that time could say: Erm, it was just a mistake!)

Russia showed their point of view, they also asked US to look at their investigation and materials they have to date, including that Radars spotted Ukrainian Jet before it happened. Also they investigated picture from Kiev’s website: claiming that "topol" rocket launcher were spotted within pro-Russians... which came to be just photoshop'ed picture!
US just ignores it, same EU does.

Yanukovich wasn't good president, same previous presidents, but is new "president" better? he is Billionaire, chocolate Billionaire! while he is great business man how can he be president? all new government is made of non-professionals, they make from school teachers Ministers of Education, etc.
They said government was corrupted? so is new government!
Minister YAYCENUK after all speeches in Maidan about better future and brainwashing people left government couple days ago, same did numbers of main politics who were involved in revolution! So that's how they pay people for their support? All they did is divided country, started war and now LEFT as they finished their role in Americans game. Did you know that?

Yanukovich made huge mistake and he failed as president, he should have stopped all "peaceful" protests on early stage.
as to him changing mind, he knew that EU can never offer same as Russia, starting from gas, military support...
If Ukraine becomes part of EU it will follow Greece's path, but in way more dramaticall way. Winter is on the way, who is going to supply Ukraine with all resources when it has already Billions dollars of debts? US? EU? Maybe UK? we all know the answer...it will take years and Billions to do it.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
Your post is so chock full of errors, I am really not sure where to begin.
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9HirVOc.gif
 
angela said:
Yanukovich wasn't good president, same previous presidents, but is new "president" better? he is Billionaire, chocolate Billionaire! while he is great business man how can he be president? all new government is made of non-professionals, they make from school teachers Ministers of Education, etc.
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Wasn't a good president?!? This was guy who got shot his own people. I don't know much about the people who make up the new government but from you post I gather there people that come from all walks of life? As for the new president being a businessman a lot of world leaders have got similar backgrounds so there's nothnig unusual in that although I don't know of any other country that can claim they have Willy Wonka as their leader.
 
Freddie1980 said:
Wasn't a good president?!? This was guy who got shot his own people. I don't know much about the people who make up the new government but from you post I gather there people that come from all walks of life? As for the new president being a businessman a lot of world leaders have got similar backgrounds so there's nothnig unusual in that although I don't know of any other country that can claim they have Willy Wonka as their leader.
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Yesturday +20 people were dead after Kiev's bombings including kids! Did BBC show it? no, they will only show if pro-russians did it!
As to president I said about him in general and what he did to country, as to shooting people I already explained the situation. Berkut made shield from their bodies without any single weapon, only sticks and shields https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ZBaNrrImw

they were standing like this for couple days and waited for orders, non of them atacked... can you see peacefull protests? only after Maidan sent extrimists with weapons and tanks President ordered to use weapon, not to atack back but to protect territory, If Berkut atacked, there would be 10000's of dead people as they had all military support at that time!
 
Danny75 said:
Let me show you what your question/statement amounts to:

Man gets beaten up in your neighbourhood. Plenty of evidence surfaces but you don't bother looking at it. Meantime you ask others what the assaulter had to gain from it, disbelieving that he was responsible, while they wonder why you won't just look at the evidence first.

But anyway, in answer to your question, you can get the answer straight from the horse's mouth (US official policy on Ukraine for the past two decades at the very least). Because they have made no secret of the fact they consider Ukraine a vital chess piece that must be brought into the EU/NATO fold, and they have spent billions of dollars (according to Victoria Nuland herself) in order to achieve it. Washington actually seems to want Ukraine in the EU even more than the members of the EU itself want it.

Nuland (US Assistant Secretary of State) and the ex-US ambassador to Ukraine were recorded in a phone call intercept back in February 2014, prior to the ousting of Yanukovitch. They were plotting the coup and talking about who they wanted to take posts in the new government "if this thing takes off" (the coup). People like Nuland and the stark raving mad John McCain visited the "Maidan" to encourage them, handing out cookies and stuff. If you know anything about McCain, then you will know that most of the things he wants are bad for most people and only benefit a clique (weapons manufacturers etc).

But why? Here's where we can only guess at, unless one is a member of Washington's inner cabal. Obviously Sevastopol in Crimea would have been (and would still be) a great prize for them.

Also, corrupt governments (including the UK's) always "need" an outside enemy, to unite the people and them, or at least to provide the people with someone that they hate even more than their own government. To point the finger outside the country, away from all the banking scandals, unjust wars, police and paedophilia scandals etc etc. It's like the daily "two minute hate" in Orwell's 1984. Putin is the new Goldberg, demonized at every turn. And there's money in it too - new lucrative contracts for weapons manufacturers and "security" companies.

Then there's stuff like this - http://www.theguardian.com/business...ob-board-ukraine-biggest-gas-producer-burisma

Jobs for the boys, but also indicative of US interests in Ukraine energy. In fact, when Victoria Nuland declared they had spent billions of dollars to influence Ukraine, she did so at the "US-Ukraine Business Council" club in Washington last year, with a big board behind her with the names of the sponsors of the event:

ExxonMobil

Chevron
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Its summed up in the video i posted:

http://youtu.be/pYxqCZ7IoFk?t=20m10s

Thompson_NCL said:
Your post is so chock full of errors, I am really not sure where to begin.
Click to expand...

One of the great things about my video is the host will put you straight through ahead of his month and a half waiting time if you think you can prove him wrong on anything he has ever presented.

http://youtu.be/pYxqCZ7IoFk?t=20m10s

If you think the post by Danny75 is "full of errors", i would suggest you email the host of the pod cast and ask to be put on the show so we can all hear the "chock full of errors" that you have spotted.
 
Any thoughts on Frau Angela's Ukrainian peace plan: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...an-deal-could-end-ukraine-crisis-9638764.html

Germany and Russia have been working on a secret plan to broker a peaceful solution to end international tensions over the Ukraine.

The Independent can reveal that the peace plan, being worked on by both Angela Merkel and Vladimir Putin, hinges on two main ambitions: stabilising the borders of Ukraine and providing the financially troubled country with a strong economic boost, particularly a new energy agreement ensuring security of gas supplies.

More controversially, if Ms Merkel’s deal were to be acceptable to the Russians, the international community would need to recognise Crimea’s independence and its annexation by Russia, a move that some members of the United Nations might find difficult to stomach.
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Personally I think that sounds like a pragmatic potential solution, I'd feel sorry for the people of Crimea of course but just as we had to abandon Poland and Czechoslovakia to the encroachment of the Iron Curtain for the sake of peace, I fear we'd have to do the same again here. Obviously there are huge barriers to overcome, like if Putin will actually keep his word but if anyone can pull this off it's the Germans - I wouldn't trust the British government to be able to get a deal like this.
 
10 junta paratroopers killed 13 wounded and 11 defected in fighting today near Shakhtarsk.

The Ukraine isn't in any position to take and hold the East they should negotiate before any more of their conscripts get killed or disabled fighting to stop independence, you can't make folk want to stay by warfare at best they're looking at decades of asymmetric war.
 
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