Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Belarus/Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia will be paying close attention, with the exception of Lithuania they all share a border with Russia and this happening on their doorsteps will be setting off alarm bells
Lithuania borders Russia as well. Kaliningrad to the south.
All these reports of invasion and not a single video / photograph? No satellite pictures? Doesn't sound very plausible for EU and West.

When the plane came down Ukrainian media was reporting on this story with photos within minutes, literally!!

Some photos from Ukraine - http://www.kommersant.ru/gallery/2477214
That's because the plane was shot down and the rebels posted boasting footage online before realising it was civvie. Same things not going to happen on a Under cover invasion?

But the Russians have photos and funnily enough, their media is printing them.
 
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All these reports of invasion and not a single video / photograph? No satellite pictures? Doesn't sound very plausible for EU and West.

When the plane came down Ukrainian media was reporting on this story with photos within minutes, literally!!

Some photos from Ukraine - http://www.kommersant.ru/gallery/2477214
You missed the interviews with the Russian paratroopers 15 miles over the boarder, that even the Russians admitted were Russian soldiers, just lost honest guvenor? Or how about the video of the T72BM tank, that only the Russians operate, or how about the fact that even the Russian news media themselves are reporting that an invasion has happened!
 
You missed the interviews with the Russian paratroopers 15 miles over the boarder, that even the Russians admitted were Russian soldiers, just lost honest guvenor? Or how about the video of the T72BM tank, that only the Russians operate, or how about the fact that even the Russian news media themselves are reporting that an invasion has happened!

4 Soldiers.. hardly an invasion when Ukraine admitted to having over 100 soldiers crossing borders. But decided against reporting it.

The tank issue I must admit I haven't read to much into it. Have they pinpointed the location of the tank? That fuzzy photo is not giving much away. Lets also not forget that T72 was also built in Ukraine, so dressing up their own tanks is not out of the question.

Just like a photo of "Russian BTR" that was doing rounds in Ukraine press as belonging to Russia, when it turned out that it was part of Ukraine Army convoy few days back!!

And again, I find it hard to believe that Russian have sent in battalions of troops and tanks but nobody is able to film it on their mobile phones and YT it?
 
All these reports of invasion and not a single video / photograph? No satellite pictures? Doesn't sound very plausible for EU and West.

When the plane came down Ukrainian media was reporting on this story with photos within minutes, literally!!

Some photos from Ukraine - http://www.kommersant.ru/gallery/2477214

Seriously? Like captured paratroopers, the NATO satellite pictures showing Russian fobs setting up, the hundreds of twitter pictures/videos showing convoys (marked with Russian "peace keeper" logos) streaming through border towns
 
And again, I find it hard to believe that Russian have sent in battalions of troops and tanks but nobody is able to film it on their mobile phones and YT it?
Because it's not an open invasion! They're posing as separatists using "captured" Ukrainian hardware, which is increasingly looking like actually demarked old Russian equipment. Putin doesn't actually have the authority to put Russian troops into Ukraine but he's got himself into the position where the rebels are losing so he's desperate to carryout a face saving exercise to try and maintain Russia's regional influence.

The Russian media, you know the one where reporters get murdered for speaking out, are even reporting that 100s of Russian troops have been killed and 100s more injured, are choking up Russian hospitals near the border area.
 
Crazy to think this is all happening in Europe in 2014, the world is getting crazier by the month... what's next?

Human nature hasn't really changed, the only real difference is there is more at stake on a global scale than before. The last 30 years or so of relative stability have built up something of an illusion of a normality that isn't really the case.
 
Because it's not an open invasion! They're posing as separatists using "captured" Ukrainian hardware, which is increasingly looking like actually demarked old Russian equipment. Putin doesn't actually have the authority to put Russian troops into Ukraine but he's got himself into the position where the rebels are losing so he's desperate to carryout a face saving exercise to try and maintain Russia's regional influence.

The Russian media, you know the one where reporters get murdered for speaking out, are even reporting that 100s of Russian troops have been killed and 100s more injured, are choking up Russian hospitals near the border area.

Wouldn't the US and others have real-time satellite data that would conclusively prove - beyond any doubt - that the Russians are in the Ukraine?

They must know exactly what's going on.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-eu-meetings-invasion-claim#start-of-comments

as quoted from the top commentator on that news article, though it was post worthy:

The Russian government knows what everyone else knows - that the legitimate and elected government of Ukraine was overthrown by a coup which was largely organized and financed by western spooks. Nothing new there - it's been done countless times before....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aqIHKWd9rSc

A democratic solution to avert the coup was rejected - Yanukovych Offers Early Presidential Vote to End Crisis ... - and the rest is history.

The Russian government also knows that the underlying conflict is about control of the massive Caucasus hydrocarbon reserves. and US geopolitical ambitions to control - or at least prevent Russian control - of them. That is why Ukraine had to be forcibly extracted from the Russian orbit of influence by the coup before any new agreement with Russia could be signed.

Russia believes that the west - and particularly the Americans - are playing a very dirty game and are not to be trusted. Evidence is on their side, quite frankly. Consequently, post-coup they were forced to make a decision. Do nothing - and risk having a US influenced Ukraine renege on the lease of Sevastopol, or secure a vital Russian strategic interest. They chose the latter course. That they did it with a local democratic vote is a propaganda plus, but they'd have likely done it anyway. They had no choice.

The Donbas regional conflict is different in that it's Ukrainian in origin. The people of the east had voted overwhelmingly for the Party of Regions, and had just seen their chosen government overthrown. So, emboldened by the Maidan coup and the Crimean annexation they pushed for some kind of autonomy. People took over buildings, waved flags, etc,etc, - Maidan style. In the heady days of early summer they held a shambolic local vote which was dismissed, not only by Kiev and the west, but also by the Russian government. The east then came out in open revolt, with locals armed with Baikal shotguns and Brno hunting rifles dressing themselves up and setting up checkpoints. Then came the massacre in Odessa and the mood got very ugly. New presidential elections were held, and Poroshenko was elected. His election was recognized not just by the west, but also by the Russian government.

Now here's where it all went off the rails. Poroshenko initially seemed amenable to negotiation but then - almost certainly pushed by Brennan (shale oil deposits) - he changed his tune and the war began in earnest.

Putin has maintained all along that the war is an internal Ukrainian dispute - and he's mostly right. That said, eastern Ukraine is largely Russian speaking; many locals have ties to Russia; and it was - and still isn't - possible politically for Putin, who also has a domestic audience, to simply leave the Donbas rebels to their fate.

The Russian position all along has been that the solution is negotiation. But victory or defeat is no basis for negotiation. My guess is that the Russians have taken a decision to do as little as possible -commensurate with not allowing the rebels to be militarily defeated. They intend to make the war un-winnable for Poroshenko, forcing him to come to some kind of sensible accommodation.

if this is actually the Russian position, it makes a lot of sense. Firstly, in the long run, a sensible compromise would be best for Ukraine as a whole - if not for Biden junior and Chevron. Secondly, the war - despite the gloss put on the cracks - is opening quite serious policy rifts between Europe and the US. And the longer the war goes on, the wider those rifts will become.

As long as the Russians back the rebels, they won't lose militarily. In the end, the protagonists will have to negotiate and Russia's position will be vindicated. And Brennan's war will have proved a bust.

is there any truth in that?
 
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Or how about the video of the T72BM tank, that only the Russians operate

The following countries possess the T72:

Algeria, Angola, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cuba, Czech Republic, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, India, Iran, Iraq, Islamic State, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, Macedonia, Morocco, Mongolia, Burma, North Korea, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Former Republic of Yugoslavia.

It's impossible to visually distinguish a 72BM from some of the earlier versions (even though the BBC wrongly attempted to claim the presence of Kontakt armour could). For reference the Ukraine has over 1000 T72's in storage and reserve from when they upgraded to the T80/84, these include T72BM tanks.

Don't believe the media hype, their not actually lying that the T72BM was never exported to other countries, but they are omitting that they are talking about the USSR where it was built, and Ukraine was one of the places in the USSR where it was built.
 
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The following countries possess the T72:

Algeria, Angola, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cuba, Czech Republic, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, India, Iran, Iraq, Islamic State, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kyrgyzstan, Libya, Macedonia, Morocco, Mongolia, Burma, North Korea, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Former Republic of Yugoslavia.

It's impossible to visually distinguish a 72BM from some of the earlier versions (even though the BBC wrongly attempted to claim the presence of Kontakt armour could). For reference the Ukraine has over 1000 T72's in storage and reserve from when they upgraded to the T80/84, these include T72BM tanks.

Don't believe the media hype, their not actually lying that the T72BM was never exported to other countries, but they are omitting that they are talking about the USSR where it was built, and Ukraine was one of the places in the USSR where it was built.

Are you seriously denying that Russian troops are actively fighting in Ukraine right now? Are you just going to wait for the fighting to be over and Putin to admit it was him all along like you did during the ongoing Crimean crisis?
 
Are you seriously denying that Russian troops are actively fighting in Ukraine right now? Are you just going to wait for the fighting to be over and Putin to admit it was him all along like you did during the ongoing Crimean crisis?

No I am not hence why I never said anything like that, I was just pointing out that the video BBC/etc are touting of a tank that "only the Russians have" is actually a video of a tank that the Ukrainians also have.
 
No I am not hence why I never said anything like that, I was just pointing out that the video BBC/etc are touting of a tank that "only the Russians have" is actually a video of a tank that the Ukrainians also have.

Well can you provide some evidence to back up your claim? It's strange that you never bother to expose glaring inaccuracies in the Russian media, or have you conceded that these sources are by their very nature not to be trusted?

Listening to Putin it sounds very much like he's going to annex other parts of Ukraine now like he did with Crimea - he's referring to Donetsk and Luhansk as "our cities" and talking about "New Russia". I don't think NATO cannot tolerate this sort of belligerence and I would support NATO troops entering Ukraine now, maybe to take defensive positions around Kiev.
 
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is there any truth in that?

It's true although interestingly missed out a few key details like...

Yanukovych was about to sign a deal with the EU in late 2013 when he suddenly reneged on the deal against the wishes of many Ukrainians which sparked some of the unrest.

The many strongarm "dirty" tactics of Russia over the past decade whenever Ukraine gets close to the EU. Including threatening gas supplies just a month before the agreement.

The fact that the "coup", incidentally a bit of an emotive word, only happened after Yanukovych started shooting protesters. And after east also started rising up. Russian spooks had just as much influence in the initial unrest as the EU ones.

Calling it "a local democratic vote" when the entire region on Crimea was covered in troops barricading the government, police and military in their own bases. Hardly the most legitimate of circumstances.

Also it's interesting that the commentator is very Russia-US and cold war mindset focused when this is almost an entirely EU manufactured issue. It certainly shows certain political leanings.
 
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