Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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SarGara said:
... yeah Im going to need some source to go with that statement. And not just another of your precious RT links before you go to the effort.
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Check out post #3026, it's a post I made on it at the time citing a BBC link (because I hardly ever link RT unless it's unavoidable), also there's a couple of related replies with me/Scorza discussing it.
 
We don't know, it could have been someone Russian affiliated, it may not have been. Hopefully some more investigations will uncover that.

It does give us a better grasp of what went on though and may explain in part why the security services started shooting so many. The article seems to suggest several were injured and mortally wounded before they started shooting back at the protesters. Whether that's actually true or not will probably need a full investigation.
 
areksnumbr1sxylady said:
Sending under-cover regular army into Ukraine, give each soldier a Russian passport.

Genius.jpg....

The only way this is plausible is that Russian Citizens who have no connections with Russian army went and took part in combat by their own will... Just like we have UK jihadists in Syria,Iraq,Afghanistan,ISIL.
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I've never claimed that the Russian military is actually competent, especially if the reports about Russian casualties are true. I suppose I'll concede that they are quite good at blowing things up - passenger airlines, bus stops, apartment buildings etc.
 
scorza said:
How can he announce a ceasefire when there are no Russian, or Russia controlled troops fighting in Ukraine? Anyway, wonder how long this one will last.
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Don't forget the ones that are on 'holiday'. I must say the Russian army has a very generous hoilday allowance for it's personal.
 
scorza said:
Anyway, wonder how long this one will last.
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It will last as long as it takes them to build up enough forces to push the government troops out of Debaltseve, just like it lasted long enough to push them out of the airport last time. :rolleyes:

The latest agreement - reached after 17 hours of negotiations in Minsk - includes:

-Ceasefire to begin at 0001 local time on 15 February
-Heavy weapons to be pulled out from conflict zones, beginning on 17 February and completed in two weeks
-All prisoners to be released; amnesty for those involved in fighting
-Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, weapons and mercenaries from Ukrainian territory. Disarmament of all illegal groups
-Ukraine to allow resumption of normal life in rebel areas, by lifting restrictions
-Constitutional reform to enable decentralisation for rebel regions by the end of 2015
-Ukraine to control border with Russia if conditions met by the end of 2015
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Im skeptical that list will ever get past point #4.
 
Putin what a statesman.

Calls to arm Ukraine are screeching away.

Whether it’s Kristol, Kagan, Nudelman, or Engel, the Jewish ‘neocon screech’ grows louder every day.

Question is, how will they salvage their coup in Kiev that’s hit a dead end?

That’s what Merkel, Hollande, Kerry, and oh yea, Obama are scrambling to salvage through several backup moves like a car stuck in a blind alley.

Don’t think for a minute that Merkel and Hollande want peace.

They need a ceasefire to stop the gains of the Novorossians in East Ukraine and to buy time to form new tactical plans of their own.

They were in this from the beginning with their Klitschkos and Maidan neo-nazi snipers to get pro-Russian, legitimately-elected Yanukovitch out.

And the ‘F the EU Nuland pick’ won out: Yats the Yid got in and democracy got kicked out.

Right from the start Merkel and Hollande were brokers of Nuland’s deal to ‘transition power’ in Ukraine. Obama took the script and simply obeyed.

[Clip: “Mr Putin made this decision around Crimea and Ukraine, not because of some Grand Strategy but essentially because he was caught, aah, off balance by the protests in the Maidan and aah Yanukovich then fleeing after we’d brokered a deal to, uh, transition power in Ukraine.”]

The “Grand Strategy” is America’s will to wage war against Russia to the death of the last Ukrainian.

One of the conditions to go to war under the Western ‘Just War Theory’ is having a reasonable expectation of winning.

Merkel and Hollande don’t think they can win right now via their proxie Kiev so they’re buying time pushing a ‘diplomatic solution.’

Everyone says Europe is fracturing and America’s influence is on the wane.

Bull. It’s a family tiff among NATO nations who are back for the huddle.

[Clip: “There’s no doubt that if in fact diplomacy fails this week there’s going to continue to be a strong, unified response between the United States and Europe. That’s not going to change. There may be some areas where there are tactical disagreements; there may not be.”

“If at a certain point in time one has to say that success is not possible, even if one puts every effort into it, then the United States and Europe have to sit together and try and explore further possibilities.”]

That’s the military option. On the table ready to go.

Did you know that Ukraine just ratified an agreement on a joint military brigade with Poland and Lithuania which will serve as part of the “Military Of The EU?”

That means, de facto, Ukraine will be part of NATO.

The joint command’s headquarters will be in Lublin, Poland, pending its and Lithuania’s ratification to launch the military unit.

This “intergovernmental battalion” will initially have 4,000 troops from the three countries and enjoying NATO’s full support.

The alliance will continue to hem and haw about sending “lethal aid to Ukraine” until the new battalion is formed with mostly Polish troops, having a tri-national command of its own.

“Lethal aid” would then be sent to the command in Lublin, not Kiev.

Get the picture?

Merkel and Hollande say they “won’t send arms” to Kiev—but to Lublin with an EU Military outpost—yes, they would…and to many more battalions throughout Eastern Europe to come.

It’s a ‘Grand Strategy’ to knock off Russia as a world power…with some kabuki theater thrown in.

Mr Putin knows the script, and will simply, not obey.
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It will most likely be broken and blamed on Russia, peace is no good to the USA when Putin is going around trying to decouple the world from (trading with) the US Dollar, their empire and global dominance depends on it.

Perhaps this peace agreement is an attempt to 'buy more time' and halt the progress of the rebels but I'd like to think that it's the EU finally showing some backbone and independence and acting in its own self interest for once.

US intelligence saw this all coming in 2008:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7741049.stm

...and probably much earlier given that the Iraq war was motivated by getting the country back to selling oil in Dollars and not Euros.
 
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Russia isn't a world power anymore. Putin knows this, and that's why he has made this land-grab. He is trying to remind the world that Russia still exists.

Russia has gas/oil in a world moving towards green and nuclear. Best they can hope for is youtube ad revenue from all the dashcam videos.
 
SarGara said:
Im skeptical that list will ever get past point #4.
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Agreed. point 4 is interesting for 4 reasons.

-It acknowledges there are foreign forces in the conflict.
-Putin can use the argument that the rebel area is not a part of Ukraine and keep forces there whilst claiming he hasn't broken the agreement.
-If he stretches to the point that the Ukrainian gov is illegal (his past standpoint) he can, in his own mind, say the ukrainian forces should be disarmed.
-It's also an attempt to get rid of the volunteer brigades who are generally seen as the only effective force at the moment for the Ukrainians.

The other points just set up a vote at the end of the year to turn eastern ukraine into russia, the latter border point being worthless as it takes two to operate a border.

Both sides will break this. If the main volunteer battalions don't stand down (they wont because they don't trust him) Russia will just use it as an excuse to keep going after gaining a small rest.

mmj_uk said:
It will most likely be broken and blamed on Russia, peace is no good to the USA when Putin is going around trying to decouple the world from (trading with) the US Dollar, their empire and global dominance depends on it.
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No answer to previous post debunking your points yet? 23 nations are moving away from the dollar, several already have. the USA isn't at war with any of them and with one of them relations are higher than they've ever been. It is not an issue that would bring a country to war.
Its even following the IMF and the UN's own advice and follows natural progression when economies pick up. they move away from the previously safe option (from the crash) and diversify their reserve and trading currencies.

EU finally showing some backbone and independence and acting in its own self interest for once.
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Its not in the self interest of the EU to have a resurgent russia who can start playing "big man" again. Ask the Poles.

And sigh. even your own link points out the WMD argument was already being made well before Iraq even announced changing to the Euro. You seem to have a major problem with timelines.
(also to repeat, many other countries don't use or are planning to move away from the dollar. its not an issue to start a war over)
 
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Woden said:
Ukraine isn't in the EU, or NATO, what exactly should we be doing? The EU is a economic and military alliance, not the world police.
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I know that.
One country attacks independent one and that is perfectly fine?
There was a thing in the past,when Ukraine wanted to develop nuclear weapon.
European countries persaude them they want need it,and in case of war they would help and protect them.
Klitschko said that last year.
EU should speak in one voice and give harsh trade sanctions to Russia.
(but we all now power of the money)
 
jimhaumman said:
I know that.
One country attacks independent one and that is perfectly fine?
There was a thing in the past,when Ukraine wanted to develop nuclear weapon.
European countries persaude them they want need it,and in case of war they would help and protect them.
Klitschko said that last year.
EU should speak in one voice and give harsh trade sanctions to Russia.
(but we all now power of the money)
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Well who is attacking Ukraine?

They are having internal issues which are fueled by outside forces.

They did everything they could to mess everything up in their own country and now crying like cry babies begging for money and weapons... Waving Russian passports... just hillarious.
 
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