The thing that gets me is, at the start of 2014 Russia only had about 500 T-72B3, out of the 10,000+ T-72s they had plus the 5000 T-80s. Why, if Putin is playing such a strategic game as people claim, would they send them in. It's just counter intuitive to me :S
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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They only have about 2000 t72's in service. The rest are in storage. I think the b3 is the most dominant single version of those 2k. So it's going to be there as that's what troops will be equipped with.
They may also be testing to see if it does better than their performance in Georgia.
The t80 is being withdrawn from service as well. There's only 1400 of them left active
Good to see the Novorussian forces finally cleaning up Debaltsevo and removing the remaining Ukrainian Nazis. It's worth noting that some of the Ukrainian units captured/destroyed by the Novorussians were found to be in possession of flags/banners with swastikas on them.
I think Poroshenko's position is now becoming increasingly untenable. I would not be surprised one bit if the Ukrainian death-squads (aka Azov battalion & Co.) decided to storm Kiev for two reasons: a) to take out their rage on the regime and b) because it is safer to storm Kiev than Donetsk. Poroshenko better watch his back now. By the way, rumor (unconfirmed!) has it that he already evacuated his family to Germany.
More news here - http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/yet-another-monumental-failure-for-junta.html
I think Poroshenko's position is now becoming increasingly untenable. I would not be surprised one bit if the Ukrainian death-squads (aka Azov battalion & Co.) decided to storm Kiev for two reasons: a) to take out their rage on the regime and b) because it is safer to storm Kiev than Donetsk. Poroshenko better watch his back now. By the way, rumor (unconfirmed!) has it that he already evacuated his family to Germany.
More news here - http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/yet-another-monumental-failure-for-junta.html
That was kind of my point, if the tanks seen are legit B3's it means they obviously came from the active 2200 pool, not the ones in storage or the T-80's, both of which it would make more sense to send as their serial numbers would show they were produced in a random SSR in the 1980's, maybe even Ukraine, it would be excellent plausible deniability.
Yet apparently instead they send their latest and second best T-72 variant.
probably as they are local , and they needed a big punch to counter the upgraded T64`s - the T80`s are unreliable.
Soldato
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good riddance
Thanks for that informed unbiast link to some guy posting ******** on his free blogspot website with no evidence to backup any of his claims apart from an MSpaint diagram of a map. Good to know. And lol at the websites title: "Russia stands for freedom!" Freedom of gay rights for example?
Lol no surprise you swallowed up every nugget though
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russia aren't the super power people think they are their military spending for years has been almost the same as the UK
they probably get more for their money but then Russia also has tons of corruption which likely equalises that out
Soldato
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Who can blame them for not wanting to go? The last time this happened your Russian loving friends at the siege in Ilovaisk had agreed to a corridor to allow Ukrainian troops to leave as they were leaving they were fired upon with machine guns and heavy mortars killing over 100 troops with another 173 taken as prisoners.
Check out the Vice news report from the aftermath of the "safe zone" evacuation. Harrowing stuff indeed:
https://news.vice.com/video/aftermath-of-ambush-on-ukrainian-forces-russian-roulette-dispatch-75
They dont really have a choice. its the most common tank they have. reserve tanks take time and money to activate and they want to win, so they cant just stick to obsolete types of an inferior tank.
It's not like the supposed b3's are everywhere. they seem to be the odd few scattered amongst others. Bit like the Firefly was in ww2.
I think the question is more....the ukrainians have lost 112 tanks either in battle or captured. How do the rebels seemingly have many more than this?
The Tank graveyards and factories are in the west, not in the east. they dont have access to those stocks. Initially the rebels had 6 APC's.
The losses the ukrainians have, dont stock the numbers the rebels have.
It would but thats slowly going out of the window isnt it if you consider russian forces have been seen shelling ukraine from inside russia, the heads of the battalions being GRU and various weapon systems appearing.
it only has to be deniable, not covert. Considering the wording of recent western documents they seem to be acknowledging that russia are there but just wont face up to the cost of calling them out.
and then a load of comments about the jews running everything but their forces being nazi's....
not really worth noting. there are plenty of pictures of men with russian unit badges or flags on them. first response if posted? "doesnt mean they are russian, can get that anywhere"
Is that your blog? since you copied but didn't quote your little opinion piece?
Russian RPG -29 - Manufactured 2014 apparently.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-HyR1jIIAAJlPS.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-H16DYCIAA4pIG.jpg
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Man of Honour
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Thanks for that informed unbiast link to some guy posting ******** on his free blogspot website with no evidence to backup any of his claims apart from an MSpaint diagram of a map. Good to know. And lol at the websites title: "Russia stands for freedom!" Freedom of gay rights for example?
Lol no surprise you swallowed up every nugget though
Obvious trolls are obvious. Just ignore them
That is a bit skewed though, American arms manufacturers charge their government significantly more for things. I.E a brand new M4A1 costs over four times as many dollars as an AK-103 and I know which I would rather have.
A top of the line US jet fighter costs ~$150 million, a British one costs ~$100 million, a Russian one costs ~$50 million. Granted they may not all be just as good against each other, but those are the top three fighters in the world and will smoke anything else sent at them.
Well to be fair, this **** has been ongoing for 10 months now, they could have easily got older still running and to the rebels, but I think you are right.
Ukrainian T-64BMs would cream older T-64/72/80 units so it makes sense to send something that can go toe to toe with them like the T-72B2, T-72B3 and T-90. Of which the T-72B2 are in short supply and the T-90 would be too obvious.
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differences in accounting mainly. the russian figure doesnt look like it covers estimated support cost over airframes lifetime. literally a delivery cost.
typhoon's numbers include development, production and support.
Both the US and the UK have also suffered from cut production orders, which also drive the unit cost artificially higher. this hasn't happened with PAK-FA
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Looking at the Iraq conflict the Challenger 2 pasted everything the Iraqi army through at it all of which was Russian made. Do the Russians any tanks that can stand up to a Challenger 2?
Yes. The Russians have some very capable tanks such as the T-90. They also have better RPGs that can break the armour of a Challenger 2, such as the RPG-29 and derivatives.
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The F22 doesn't include that either though, if you divide the program cost by number of planes it then comes out at $350 million per jet.
Fair enough, I thought you were going by f35.
Isnt the main advantage of the t90 being its pasted in antiram paint and has supposedly decent EW capabilities. the actual tank itself isn't that amazing and thats why they've gone to Armata.
Where as we've left CR2 sit in the dust with no money for a decade.
And the rpg29 hit didnt take out the tank and hit an area that was later upgraded. It basically skimmed the ground and hit the tank on the belly taking the drivers leg off.
which is the russian munition that's been found in ukraine. It does eat M1's tho.
Not if we don't cheap out on the armour :S Challenger 2 with the fully upgraded kit will take a RPG 20+ hit. The Challenger 2 with the proper standards of maintenance and funding will handle anything the Russians have currently.
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