Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Zethor said:
You think invasions are decided based on official language rules? Don't be silly.

The trigger of the invasion was Yanukovych losing power. Russia started the "military exercies" one or two days later.
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Nope.

I think that the current interim government alienated the ethnic Russians in the autonomous republic of Crimea, and elsewhere in Ukraine.

The fact is, the government of the autonomous republic of Crimea requested Russian support.
 
scorza said:
It's amazing how the Putin fanbois will justify any brutality by Russia because the oppressed force "brought it on themselves".

- Pussy Riot brought it on themselves
- Alexander Litvinenko brought it on himself
- That female journalist who got beaten up and then killed later on brought it on herself
- Georgia brought it on itself.
- The gays brought it on themselves.
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Well that ones actually true as Georgia was the aggressor and Russia came to the aid of the sovereign states Georgia invaded.


eggyoke said:
The question now is, how did she predict it? Why did she even mention it? There is no reason why she could possibly know this unless she knew something in advance that no one else did.
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Because this isn't something that's just exploded overnight it's been a long time brewing. Originally we (those of us following the situation) expected that Ukraine would go ahead with EU membership and that Crimea would rebel in response bringing Russia into it.
 
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m4rk84 said:
I think it's kind of an interesting situation... isn't Putin essentially playing a big game of chicken with the rest of the world?

I mean this is a literal invasion of a sovereign nation, yet there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. Russia will get away with this completely, because the threat of nuclear war is too large for any other country including the US to get involved. All America will do is sit on the sidelines screaming "Stop or else!"...

Seems that while nuclear bombs exist any country with a significant supply of them can invade any territory with little risk of repercussions.
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The threat of nuclear war is why Russia actually invaded. An Ukraine friendly to the EU and maybe even an EU member a step away from Nato. Once a country joins Nato, Russia can't touch it so this was the perfect excuse for them to make a Bush style preemptive attack. All this talk about a law that was passed regarding language and statues is a sad joke. Similar laws have been passed in the former soviet republics that are now Nato members and have a significant Russian minority yet Russia did little other than banning imports on milk or wine or something.

This invasion is Putin marking his territory, nothing else.
 
m4rk84 said:
I mean this is a literal invasion of a sovereign nation, yet there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
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Partly. Crimea is an autonomous republic with it's own Government.

Think of it more as one of the British Crown Dependencies being 'invaded' at their own government's request.

e.g. somewhere like Jersey asking the French to send in the military to 'protect it'
 
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Zethor said:
All this talk about a law that was passed regarding language and statues is a sad joke. Similar laws have been passed in the former soviet republics that are now Nato members and have a significant Russian minority yet Russia did little other than banning imports on milk or wine or something.

This invasion is Putin marking his territory, nothing else.
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If putin did not have crowds of people welcoming his soldiers, he wouldn't have gone there. Language laws opened the gates. But he went for his own reasons of course, nothing to do with language laws.
 
Zethor said:
The threat of nuclear war is why Russia actually invaded. An Ukraine friendly to the EU and maybe even an EU member a step away from Nato. Once a country joins Nato, Russia can't touch it so this was the perfect excuse for them to make a Bush style preemptive attack. All this talk about a law that was passed regarding language and statues is a sad joke. Similar laws have been passed in the former soviet republics that are now Nato members and have a significant Russian minority yet Russia did little other than banning imports on milk or wine or something.

This invasion is Putin marking his territory, nothing else.
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"Over ten million Germans live in two of the States adjoining our frontiers. This in itself is sufficiently distressing. It is intolerable for a self-respecting World Power to know that across the frontier are kinsmen who have to suffer severe persecution simply because of their sympathy, their feeling of union with Germany. To the interests of the German Reich belongs also the protection of those fellow-Germans who live beyond our frontiers and are unable to ensure for themselves the right to a general freedom, personal, political, and ideological."
February 20, 1938 Adolf Hitler

So marking his territory in the same way Hitler did, right?
 
m4rk84 said:
"Over ten million Germans live in two of the States adjoining our frontiers. This in itself is sufficiently distressing. It is intolerable for a self-respecting World Power to know that across the frontier are kinsmen who have to suffer severe persecution simply because of their sympathy, their feeling of union with Germany. To the interests of the German Reich belongs also the protection of those fellow-Germans who live beyond our frontiers and are unable to ensure for themselves the right to a general freedom, personal, political, and ideological."
February 20, 1938 Adolf Hitler

So marking his territory in the same way Hitler did, right?
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He should have just told them to comeback to Germany if they want German protection.
 
ubersonic said:
Well that ones actually true as Georgia was the aggressor and Russia came to the aid of the sovereign states Georgia invaded
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Not really. South Ossetia isn't recognised as a sovereign state by anyone other than Russia and a handful of minor countries. Sure the Georgian forces attacked the separatists there but they didn't do so for no reason, or are you one of these who deny that the separatists regularly shelled Georgian positions? In any case, it was a miscalculation by the Georgian establishment and they paid the price. It should have been a warning to the rest of the world of Putin's intentions.
 
m4rk84 said:
"Over ten million Germans live in two of the States adjoining our frontiers. This in itself is sufficiently distressing. It is intolerable for a self-respecting World Power to know that across the frontier are kinsmen who have to suffer severe persecution simply because of their sympathy, their feeling of union with Germany. To the interests of the German Reich belongs also the protection of those fellow-Germans who live beyond our frontiers and are unable to ensure for themselves the right to a general freedom, personal, political, and ideological."
February 20, 1938 Adolf Hitler

So marking his territory in the same way Hitler did, right?
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It's somewhat similar, yes. The "fate" of the Russians living outside Russia's territory is one of the most important aspects of Russian foreign policy. They invaded two Georgian provinces, they have an army group in Moldova and now they invaded Ukraine too.

That being said, you can't really compare Hitler with Putin as the latter isn't psychotic nor does he dream of world domination. What Putin wants is a stronger Russia, possibly as strong as the USSR, a superpower that has global influnece as opposed to the mainly regional influence it now has.
 
englishpremier said:
Partly. Crimea is an autonomous republic with it's own Government.

Think of it more as one of the British Crown Dependencies being 'invaded' at their own government's request.

e.g. somewhere like Jersey asking the French to send in the military to 'protect it'
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Hasn't it progressed from that though?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26400035

Seems the Russian government has essentially authorised an invasion of the Ukraine, not just Crimea. The vote passed 90-0.
 
Sky News had on earlier our previous ambassador to Ukraine. He was speaking sense, and happened to be a well spoken gent which is worth a few marks in my book.

Key points where that the stories about the Ukrainian protestors being fascists are all made up spin coming from Russia, and the war with Georgia in 2008 was all started by the Russians who provoked Georgia into attacking South Ossetia.
 
Zethor said:
That being said, you can't really compare Hitler with Putin as the latter isn't psychotic nor does he dream of world domination. What Putin wants is a stronger Russia, possibly as strong as the USSR, a superpower that has global influnece as opposed to the mainly regional influence it now has.
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Russia is already the third largest military power on Earth, most of Europe also relies on Russia for gas, they are an enormously strong power in every sense of the word.

How strong will Russia need to become to satisfy Putin's taste for power?

I wonder how many people would have labelled Hitler as psychotic prior to 1938? I would hazard a guess at not many.

I would be feeling pretty uneasy if I were Belarus, or Poland right now.
 
m4rk84 said:
Russia is already the third largest military power on Earth, most of Europe also relies on Russia for gas, they are an enormously strong power in every sense of the word.

How strong will Russia need to become to satisfy Putin's taste for power?

I wonder how many people would have labelled Hitler as psychotic prior to 1938? I would hazard a guess at not many.

I would be feeling pretty uneasy if I were Belarus, or Poland right now.
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Belarus already has a Putin puppet installed as leader, so yes if you were in Belarus you'd probably be very uncomfortable with the levels of corruption and human rights abuses going on there. Poland is a member of NATO now, so I wouldn't be that worried although I'd be re-assured if there were significant to NATO assets re-assigned to my country.
 
Borsch said:
I wonder if UK parliament ever had such a score :)
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Well there's probably a good chance democracy isn't functioning very well in your country if a vote to declare war on a non-aggressive neighbouring country is passed with no votes against. So I should hope not. ;)
 
scorza said:
Not really. South Ossetia isn't recognised as a sovereign state by anyone other than Russia and a handful of minor countries. Sure the Georgian forces attacked the separatists there but they didn't do so for no reason, or are you one of these who deny that the separatists regularly shelled Georgian positions? In any case, it was a miscalculation by the Georgian establishment and they paid the price. It should have been a warning to the rest of the world of Putin's intentions.
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If Georgia wanted to keep South Ossetia and the other micro states after the fall of the USSR it should have done something about it at the time, not invade them after they had been independent sovereign states for 15+ years.
 
I'm struggling to understand these news articles on "Russia approves troops for Ukraine." they don't explain things properly. Are they planning sending troops across the whole of Ukraine? Or just troops to Crimea? And if so why did Putin need "approval" to send troops after he's already sent them :confused:
 
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