Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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and they magic'd up a Russian missile launcher - was it just sat in the shed in case of a rainy day.

The rebels are Russian holiday makers though apparently all taking some time off from the army and spending it in East Ukraine for a laugh. Maybe they borrowed the vehicle as well. Definately nothing to do with Russia though...
 
good grief - have to agree with the majority here.

Personally whether the missile launcher came in the country 1 day or 1 year before doesnt a make much of a difference to me. Some fool manning the Russian weapon shot the plane down probably through incompetence in targetting just about anything with two wings.

Its almost on par with guns in the USA the level of argument in this thread

I don't think many people were really questioning who shot the plane down. The big question is why and how did it happen.

Why was it targeted? Most are assuming an accident which leads onto...

Why was the plane there in the first place. It was announced as no fly zone in a war zone. Why did Malasian not reroute like a lot of other operators and why did the Ukranian ATC allow/direct it through the area. Was it because of an assumption there was no weaponry in the area able to take down an aircraft at that height, pure belligerence to the rebel statement (no fly zone, shooting down of various aircraft) or something else?

The reality is it was probably a tragic accident (the video/radio comms of the "rebels" first realizing it was a civilian airliner adds weight to this IMO) caused by a number of basic errors on both sides, probably enabled by the Russians providing an anti aircraft weapon to be used against Ukranian military aircraft and the the Ukranians ATC believing aircraft flying at 30,000 feet were "safe" and as such ignoring the warzone.

Obviously though it was entirely the Russians fault and they should all be hung out to dry...
 
This is dynamite! We now have iron clad proof from Putin's own government that Russia rigged elections in the Ukraine, armed the anti-Ukrainian terrorists, and guided their operations right from the start:

A Ukrainian group calling itself Cyber Hunta has released more than a gigabyte of emails and other material from the office of one of Vladimir Putin's top aides, Vladislav Surkov, that show Russia's fingerprints all over the separatist movement in Ukraine.

While the Kremlin has denied the relationship between Moscow and the separatists, the emails show in great detail how Russia controlled virtually every detail of the separatist effort in the Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine, which has torn the country apart and led to a Russian takeover of Crimea.

And unlike the reported Russian hack of the Democratic National Committee, the Ukrainian hack reached deep into the office of the Russian president.

"This is a serious hack," said Maks Czuperski, head of the Digital Forensic Research Lab of the Atlantic Council (DFRL), which has searched through the email dump and placed selected emails on-line.

"We have seen so much happen to the United States, other countries at the hands of Russia," said Czuperski. "Not so much to Russia. It was only a question of time that some of the anonymous guys like Cyber Hunta would come to strike them back."

A senior U.S. intelligence official said the U.S. "had no role" in the hack.

Surkov has been a close aide to Putin for more than a decade, serving as both deputy prime minister and Putin's deputy chief of staff.

The hacked emails date from 2014, a period during which Surkov was called the "gray cardinal" of the Kremlin, Putin's behind-the-scenes aide responsible for managing Russia's most crucial operations. He guided separatists not just in Ukraine, but in breakaway "republics" in Georgia as well.

It's as if the Russians were able to hack the email of Ben Rhodes, the deputy national security director and close aide to President Obama.

Specifically, the anonymous Ukrainian hackers were able to download the Outlook email accounts of Surkov's assistants, including a "Masha" and an "Yevgenia," according to the DFRL. Surkov himself apparently doesn't use email. The files included "the inbox, outbox, drafts, deleted email, spam, etc.," said Czuperski, noting 2,337 messages in total were dumped.

A senior U.S. official, asked if the material was authentic, told NBC News that there was "nothing to indicate otherwise."

Hidden in the one gigabyte file are a variety of materials that provided evidence of Russian involvement at the highest levels in the war in eastern Ukraine, which has taken the lives of 10,000 people, including the 298 passengers and crew of Malaysian Flight 17, shot down by a separatist missile in July 2014 over Ukraine.

There is a list of casualties in the Donbass region of Ukraine sent from a high-ranking separatist official, and a list of candidates for office in a sham election. One email notes that the individuals with asterisks next to their name were "checked by us" and are "especially recommended." Days later, those same names were announced as having been "elected."

There are expense reports and a proposal for a government press office in Donetsk, scene of some of the fiercest fighting -- a three-person operation for separatist propaganda, with an editor, reporter and webmaster.

One U.S. official told NBC News that the material confirms much of what the U.S. believed was going on at the time, that the Kremlin was running the separatists at a micro-level.

In fact, the official noted that Surkov's name was the first on a list of Russians and Ukrainians placed under executive sanctions by President Obama in March 2014, citing his role in the separatist movement. The action froze his U.S. assets in the United States and banned him from entering the country. Similar sanctions were imposed by the European Union.

(Source).
 
This is dynamite! We now have iron clad proof from Putin's own government that Russia rigged elections in the Ukraine, armed the anti-Ukrainian terrorists, and guided their operations right from the start:



(Source).

Iron clad proof that Ukraine is now about to get ripped a new one, hope that guy realises what he just did. Lets be honest here, the EU was funding the rebellion against yanukovich for years, how is that any better than what the russians did for ethnic russians who have been systematically attacked by the Ukrainian state since the inception of its constitution?
 
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There's a recording that was just released by some Jewish Times reporter where Hillary Clinton states on tape that the US should have rigged the Palestinian elections, not to mention the telephone call with those US figures discussing overthrowing the Ukraine government and how they knew Russia wouldn't like it. Both are as bad as each other the US just doesn't like that there's a new player in town and they aren't getting things all their own way.
 
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The only difference is that Russia currently (probably) has 4 operational tactical nuclear weapons on that frontline, just one of them could obliterate the Ukrainian military and/or Kiev if things looked extraordinarily bleak for Moscow.
 
The only difference is that Russia currently (probably) has 4 operational tactical nuclear weapons on that frontline, just one of them could obliterate the Ukrainian military and/or Kiev if things looked extraordinarily bleak for Moscow.

Plenty of their nuclear arsenal could reach Ukraine not to mention they have something like 18 Topol-M in active state of which several are reputedly in western Russia - though again probably most of them are in range regardless of where they are.

That said its highly unlikely Russia would use nuclear weapons against Ukraine unless somehow Ukraine posed an existential threat to Russia which is really unlikely - certainly not over conventional action - possibly a tiny tiny chance they'd use one defensively if it looked like Crimea would be over-run but even then very unlikely.
 
Plenty of their nuclear arsenal could reach Ukraine not to mention they have something like 18 Topol-M in active state of which several are reputedly in western Russia - though again probably most of them are in range regardless of where they are.

That said its highly unlikely Russia would use nuclear weapons against Ukraine unless somehow Ukraine posed an existential threat to Russia which is really unlikely - certainly not over conventional action - possibly a tiny tiny chance they'd use one defensively if it looked like Crimea would be over-run but even then very unlikely.

That entirely depends on whether Russia is going to use its now typical war games as an actual forward push, preemptive singular nuclear strike and attack.

The problem is... we will not know until we see the ruins of the result.
 
That entirely depends on whether Russia is going to use its now typical war games as an actual forward push, preemptive singular nuclear strike and attack.

The problem is... we will not know until we see the ruins of the result.

If Russia goes with a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the offensive - even singularly against a non NATO entity they turn pretty much everyone against them - even their allies. I suspect pretty much everyone would pile on to defend Ukraine in that event.
 
If Russia goes with a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the offensive - even singularly against a non NATO entity they turn pretty much everyone against them - even their allies. I suspect pretty much everyone would pile on to defend Ukraine in that event.

Depends what comes of this hack, as the US will likely inflame the situation.
 
Lets be honest here, the EU was funding the rebellion against yanukovich for years

Evidence please.

how is that any better than what the russians did for ethnic russians who have been systematically attacked by the Ukrainian state since the inception of its constitution?

LOL, you Putin boys really make me laugh.

Russia_Invades_Ukraine.png


Both are as bad as each other the US just doesn't like that there's a new player in town and they aren't getting things all their own way.

A 'new player in town'? Are you too young to remember the Cold War? Do you know what Russia was doing all that time?

The only difference is that Russia currently (probably) has 4 operational tactical nuclear weapons on that frontline, just one of them could obliterate the Ukrainian military and/or Kiev if things looked extraordinarily bleak for Moscow.

Russia wouldn't dare to start a nuclear war by attacking Ukraine. Particularly since she has about 100,000 troops there!

If Russia goes with a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the offensive - even singularly against a non NATO entity they turn pretty much everyone against them - even their allies. I suspect pretty much everyone would pile on to defend Ukraine in that event.

^^ This. Putin knows that if he launches nukes at Ukraine, Russia will be wiped off the map within minutes.
 
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+IM-PRESS+20050819FCS00984+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN

https://cddrl.fsi.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/McFaul_No_59.pdf

Many of the Ukrainian activities that contributed to the exposure of fraud had
significant assistance from external actors. In fact, The West’s central contribution to the
Orange Revolution was to this critical factor. This took the form of long-term support
and cultivation of voters’ rights groups, think tanks, youth groups and other civil activist
organizations, and media organizations that would be instrumental in monitoring, polling,
PVT, disseminating information about voters rights and violations of those rights
especially during the second round of voting.

Some times it doesnt amaze me that people dont bother reading into their precious EU project, though in reality it is just a expansionist project from the US. Obviously i am not dumb, Russia has meddled aswell, but frankly they have more right to meddle in the affairs of what used to be within their remit over the period of the Russian Empire.

I agree with no one, but we arent a nice player either, Ukraine should have been left well alone.
 
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