The resident shills will just say it's fake news, or fabricated lies, or whatever. They won't concede that perhaps Russia are just as dirty as the US, if not more. You know what though, who cares? I'm often getting slammed for dismissing certain posters views but I clearly do it for good reason. Not worth your effort.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
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I can teach you how to operate a sniper rifle, it doesn't mean you're ever going to be able to hit anyone with it.
That doesn't mean I won't hit the wrong target.
What else will Q be teaching you?
LOL!!1 ...I think someone is just jealous
Do you have any comment about the actual topic of discussion regarding MH17 being shot down? Any conspiracy theories? Any fake news claims? Anything?
Fair point. What's your opinion on the evidence and latest headline though?
What am I missing? I've not seen any new evidence presented though they seem to be doubling down on the Russian side to it.
My opinion is as before that it appears to have been accidentally shot down by Russian/separatist forces by a system that may or may not have come from Russia or obtained within Ukraine and that the airline bears some responsibility for overflying an active war zone, where known heavy equipment was in operation, where a number of heavy military cargo aircraft had been shot down at a variety of ranges in the days before.
So essentially the official investigators state it was the Russian Federation. Accident or not, they've always denied it though.
Amazing that you're trying to shift some of the responsibility to the airliner though and not completely on the RF! I'm surprised by that for a number of reasons: civilian airliners overfly contested areas worldwide daily by using known civilian air corridors; the airline wasn't to anticipate a Russian SAM system transiting across an international border underneath it and shooting it down; the responsibility falls solely on the SAM operators to identify the target as enemy, friend or civilian before opening fire.
Some of the responsibility does lie with the airline though, that has never been in question. Even if Putin personally drove a Buk to Ukraine, deliberately targeted MH17 and laughed manically as he fired the missile and watched it impact that doesn't absolve Malaysian Airlines of responsibility for trying to save fuel/money by routing their plane over an active warzone where planes were being shot by SAMs.
I don't agree the airline shouldn't take some responsibility - they shouldn't be relying on NOTAMs alone as to where they should and shouldn't fly and some other airlines were taking precautions and using other routes around the conflict zone.
A NOTAM was published less than 72 hours before the flight because a cargo plane was shot down from 21,000 feet in close proximity to the flight path taken by MH17.
It was an active warzone with high altitude interception in effect and known heavy equipment in the area any company that gave a **** about health and safety should be taking that very seriously.
End of the day those SAM operators potentially were rebel forces that might not care what they shoot down so trying to say they should have some responsibility is meaningless - it is an active warzone.
I've read it twice and all I can see, is that they have used the serial number of the missile from it's casing to narrow it down to having been produced in the USSR in the mid 80's.
However in the BBC article they have claimed to have "irrefutable evidence" that the missile had been brought in from Russian territory, so we can only assume they have some new evidence that they are simply not disclosing yet.
Yeah that was my impression - nothing really has changed in terms of what we've been presented with publicly - as before it is highly likely it was shot down by Russian/separatist forces, probably by accident with equipment that is found generally in that region that might, but isn't certain to be the case, have come from Russia.
yet the inquiry has identified the Russian unit responsible... you're just obfuscating with this "may or may not" idea that it was obtained in Ukraine... along with the idea that someone watched a youtube clip to figure out how to work the thing after presumably just happening to find it
Is it factually established? there was a recording that I dunno if it was ever authenticated - haven't kept up with that side and the unit was identified as operating in the area but (and again something I've not kept current on) I've never seen that they were conclusively tied to the incident? I mean from what I've seen it is quite likely but also still very circumstantial.
EDIT: To be clear AFAIK this is the latest of any substance unless anyone has more up to date information:
In fairness, until they release any proof of the former then the latter is still a more likely scenario.
It's not really obfuscating to point out flaws in circumstantial evidence and highlight more plausible explanations.
They just claim it was produced in the USSR in 1986, which ironically is something Russia themselves claimed as part of their defence the other year when the accident report identified the warhead and Russia stated it was an old Soviet design that had been retired in Russian service years ago.
If that's true then that's massive, if they can prove that it's a smoking gun and the first real proof anyones come up with. Pretty much nails Russia bang to rights
LOL!!1 ...I think someone is just jealous
Do you have any comment about the actual topic of discussion regarding MH17 being shot down? Any conspiracy theories? Any fake news claims? Anything?
What do you have that I could possibly be jealous of?
I find your post amusing given that you... Of all people are questioning someone on applying actual content to a thread... This the person who generally always posts berating statements, while adding zero to the discussion (other than lame attempts at riling posters up).
At this point, blaming the state is not correct. There is no verifiable proof the Russian state did it. A Russian made missile, yes.
I'm not seeing anything beyond circumstantial? the identification number only confirms that the missile is of USSR origin? of which at the time of production Ukraine was still part of and the path of the Buk is still circumstantial - I'm not trying to absolve Russia here but if they were operating with separatists and an airline was accidentally shot down they'd probably want to remove any such capabilities of their own from the area whether it was involved in the shooting down or not - there is still lacking clarity as to what was actually operational in the area and under whose command, etc.
USSR != Russia.
Bit of a mixed one that as technically this missile would have been removed from active use over a decade ago within the Russian military - on the other hand they do keep a lot of that in old stock which is highly likely to be where a lot of resources sent to the Ukraine conflict would have been sourced from. (A good example though of the kind of disingenuous arguments Russia tends to use to try and deflect).
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