Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Ukraine is playing a very dangerous game, poking the Russian Bear ʕ ᵔᴥᵔ ʔ gets you bitten.


Rroff said:
Lots going on around Ukraine tonight - looks like the Ukraine government is trying to escalate the situation for their own ends and Russia isn't exactly helping.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46338671

Lot more going on than in the BBC link but its all fragmented and conflicting reports at the moment.
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Lots of theories are going around, a lot are suggesting that this was all planned by Petro Poroshenko the Ukraine President who from what I understand, politically is very weak, as well as the government itself. It was largely assumed he wouldn't be able to win an other term when leadership elections happen again, but a war time President or something like that, always wins.

But staging a little incident like this, allowed him to invoke martial law which allows him to look strong in the public eyes and world view but gives him greater powers to "remove" political opposition.

Kinda like what happened with the "failed" Turkey coup in 2016.

Well, time will tell if any of this is true, if people start to be arrested or go missing and other things like that.

Too early for me to decide, but it's highly suspicious.

XeNoN89 said:
Russia blocks Ukraine sea route, rams, shoots at and captures Ukraine ships but it's Ukraine escalating? That's an odd take
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Well, you got that totally mixed up.

The Kerch Strait was only blocked after this event, not before.

Malevolence said:
I thought Ukraine was already at war with Russia, especially considering that Russia invaded and annexed the Crimean peninsula and are also actively engaged in military operations inside of Eastern Ukraine.
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Did you really believe this? You think Russia and Ukraine are in open war with each other?

Russia and Ukraine as states, as in countries are not in open war with each other, they don't like each other, you could even suggest a cold war is between them, but they not at war with each other.
 
Rroff said:
I'm not just talking about protestation because of their navy being attacked but they appear to have been trying to stoke tensions through the evening towards trying to force the international hand.
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That’s just silly, they’re the ones who were attacked, of course they’re going to kick up a fuss about it.
 
Ok well what do you expect them to do, sit back and just accept that it happened? Ignore it and hope Russia doesn't shoot up too many more of their vessels in future?
 
dowie said:
Ok well what do you expect them to do, sit back and just accept that it happened? Ignore it and hope Russia doesn't shoot up too many more of their vessels in future?
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That isn't what I'm saying - I'm not criticising them for complaining about events with the boats but they seem to have since tried to manufacture additional tensions to put more pressure on the international community to respond (or some speculate that it is to shore up support for Poroshenko internally).
 
You didn’t answer the question? What did you expect them to do? It doesn’t seem unreasonable for them to kick up a fuss or get the international community involved when they were the ones who were attacked and I really don’t see how you can frame this as them bring the ones causing tensions when they were the ones who were attacked.
 
dowie said:
You didn’t answer the question? What did you expect them to do? It doesn’t seem unreasonable for them to kick up a fuss or get the international community involved when they were the ones who were attacked and I really don’t see how you can frame this as them bring the ones causing tensions when they were the ones who were attacked.
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I said I'm not criticising them for or that it is unreasonable to try and get the international community involved when they were attacked but if you've been following events there seems to be some attempt since to manufacture a bigger incident out of it by Ukraine. (EDIT: As per my original post with the caveat that some of what is going on isn't clear).
 
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mmj_uk said:
Well as part of the NATO agreement they agreed to pay 2% of GDP and only about 4 countries do and yet with Brexit we hear all the time the "we need to pay what we've agreed to or nobody will trust us" line but somehow with NATO nobody bats an eyelid at decades of underspending and the US having to pay the difference.

Rather than just paying what they agreed and having US backing, Germany with Merkel on her way out in a few years and Macron who has a far lower approval rating than Trump think it's a good idea to just hand over military power to Brussels.
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They have until 2025 to achieve that target, as agreed by all NATO partners in 2006... you could atleast attempt to be right.
 
Rroff said:
I said I'm not criticising them for or that it is unreasonable to try and get the international community involved when they were attacked but if you've been following events there seems to be some attempt since to manufacture a bigger incident out of it by Ukraine.
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In what way? It seems they've reacted appropriately from what I can tell. What did you expect them to do?
 
good for Putin looking after the Russian national interest. Imagine that, a leader looking out for his country. Ukraine will get theirs for being a western stooly
 
Rroff said:
there seems to be some attempt since to manufacture a bigger incident out of it by Ukraine.
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Russia illegally invades Ukraine with 106,500 soldiers, 30 warships, and 72 fighter planes... and you think Ukraine is trying to 'manufacture a bigger incident out of it'? What the **** are you smoking?

Ukraine-for-Lunch.png
 
ubersonic said:
It turned out to be empty promises.
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No. Western action is severely curtailed by the fact that Ukraine is not a NATO member. Which is precisely why NATO wanted Ukraine as a NATO member. Unfortunately that couldn't be arranged quickly enough to prevent Putin's latest invasion.
 
one of the main catalysts for all this was because the West didn't like the fact that the original Ukrainian leader suspended the plan s to move them closer to the EU. So western regimes then worked behind the scenes to manufacture a revolution to get rid of him. Putin is doing something similar but from the other side yet everyone cries about him interfering. The hypocrisy stinks and is the only reason I would like to see Putin crush a few so called western leaders / governments, for the lols, just like people who voted brexit for the lols and to "give it to the man".
 
Evangelion said:
No. Western action is severely curtailed by the fact that Ukraine is not a NATO member.
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And the fact none of the NATO members wanted to help Ukraine like they promised as they had already gotten what they wanted from it.

NB: It's worth baring in mind however that even if Ukraine was still a major nuclear power it wouldn't have helped them, it would have just meant Putin invaded sooner in order to keep Yanukovich in power. So while it's sad that NATO's promises turned out to be empty it's not like Ukraine would have been better off if it hadn't made the NATO deal.
 
wildman said:
one of the main catalysts for all this was because the West didn't like the fact that the original Ukrainian leader suspended the plan s to move them closer to the EU.
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Well no, it was that the people of Ukraine "didn't like the fact that the original Ukrainian leader suspended the plan s to move them closer to the EU" hence why they rose up to depose him.
 
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