Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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The Russians in Crimea weren't in danger, they didn't need protection, the Russians simply saw an oppotunity they couldn't pass. As for Syria, there were various opinions and, in the end, the only thing that prevented the West to start bombing, like they did in Lybia, was the democratic process, not Putin.

That's questionable. The nationalists that overthrew the government (i.e. a proportion of the protestors) were setting up armed militia several days ago. It's unlikely the west weren't involved in some way in supporting (or even instigating) the protests. Both those situations mean there could very well have been pretty grave threats to many russian speakers, especially those in an area heavily pro Russia and anti nationalist groups that just got into power.

Much like Syria it's not as simple as many like to think. There is huge support on both sides in country and from nations themselves, followed by a large amount of "extremist" organisations mixed in. Basically they are both as bad as each other and we should only go in if we are honest with ourselves and admit it's only because it's in our interest that we want the pro westerners to get into power, rather than the usual gumph about helping the majority of citizens from "evil" governments.
 
I'm not really sure how this can be resolved.

Ukraine can't take on Russia, and the West can't assist Ukraine without seriously antagonising Russia, so that's not an option.

The general population of Ukraine seem pretty keen to break away from Russia, but they aren't going to be able to do that. So they'll have to back down or start fighting like insurgents to try and make Russia think it isn't worth it, and given Russia's significant military power, they'd do massive damage to Ukraine before backing down, if they backed down at all.

At the moment Russia are quite clearly trying to strong-arm them into backing down though, Russia won't attack unless they're attacked directly. If Russia were serious about a proper attack they would have neutralised any of Ukraine's forces already.

And so we have a stand-off...

You missed an important word there...

Some of The general population of Ukraine seem pretty keen to break away from Russia, but they aren't going to be able to do that.

Much like Syria, Libya and the protests in Iran it is certainly not definitive, just those that protest are usually reported more. It sounds very much like Libya and Syria in many respects, with certain parts pro and other parts against. Maybe the easiest option is to split and go their separate ways.
 
When over 58% of the population are russian and are under threat, i belive putin has every right to send the military in to keep the peace.

i would hope if in a similar situation britain would do the same.
 
But it's not keeping the peace, it's tantamount to an invasion? Putting your troops on another countries soil without permission is an act of war. If the Crimea wants to be part of Russia so bad offer them a referendum. Vote to stay or go. They vote to go, let them become part of Russia.

Admittedly it is a little more complex thanks to the Russian navy and the Black Sea Fleet actually not being in Russia.
 
But it's not keeping the peace, it's tantamount to an invasion? Putting your troops on another countries soil without permission is an act of war. If the Crimea wants to be part of Russia so bad offer them a referendum. Vote to stay or go. They vote to go, let them become part of Russia.

Admittedly it is a little more complex thanks to the Russian navy and the Black Sea Fleet actually not being in Russia.

Unless it's western militaries, then it's "peace keeping".

As already stated the new "government" have declared an independence referendum the Crimea have stated they are going to have won't be recognised.
 
But it's not keeping the peace, it's tantamount to an invasion? Putting your troops on another countries soil without permission is an act of war. If the Crimea wants to be part of Russia so bad offer them a referendum. Vote to stay or go. They vote to go, let them become part of Russia.

Admittedly it is a little more complex thanks to the Russian navy and the Black Sea Fleet actually not being in Russia.

Not only that, there is a whole host of things unsettling about the current situation.
  • Russia has violated international laws by entering Ukraine territory in the first place.
  • Putin has placed his biggest critic and political opposition under house arrest, with no form of communication.
  • Russia has approved the use of it's military might, not just on Crimea but on the entire country of Ukraine.
  • Russia has withdrawn it's US ambassador from US soil.
  • Russia entered the Ukraine under disguise without any warning and straight up snatched key areas.
  • Russia has moved atleast 6000 troops, positioned warships in prohibited waters and sent in countless battle helicopters.
 
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All in all this is a very worrying situation which has the potential to get out of hand at any moment, World War One was started over a situation less volatile than this - let's hope that we don't have a Third World War on our hands a century after the first began. If the new Ukrainian government decide to try to take back Crimea with force then the situation will become extremely dangerous very quickly - a regional conflict with unknown consequences would almost certainly break out.

As an aside, though, one must (in a way) admire the efficiency of Russia's manoeuvres into Ukraine - they quickly took those airports without incident and seem to be moving thousands of troops around pretty fast. Taking the airports of course gives them the chance to fly in troops and supplies if needs be, and also denying any potential opponents access to the area.
 
All in all this is a very worrying situation which has the potential to get out of hand at any moment, World War One was started over a situation less volatile than this - let's hope that we don't have a Third World War on our hands a century after the first began. If the new Ukrainian government decide to try to take back Crimea with force then the situation will become extremely dangerous very quickly - a regional conflict with unknown consequences would almost certainly break out.

As an aside, though, one must (in a way) admire the efficiency of Russia's manoeuvres into Ukraine - they quickly took those airports without incident and seem to be moving thousands of troops around pretty fast. Taking the airports of course gives them the chance to fly in troops and supplies if needs be, and also denying any potential opponents access to the area.

We will not go to war with Russia over Ukraine, fact is... We will never go to war against Russia, because that war would last around 8-10 minutes....
 
As an aside, though, one must (in a way) admire the efficiency of Russia's manoeuvres into Ukraine - they quickly took those airports without incident and seem to be moving thousands of troops around pretty fast. Taking the airports of course gives them the chance to fly in troops and supplies if needs be, and also denying any potential opponents access to the area.

That's like admiring a grown man taking candy from a sleeping baby.

We will not go to war with Russia over Ukraine, fact is... We will never go to war against Russia, because that war would last around 8-10 minutes....

:rolleyes:
 
areksnumbr1sxylady said:
Sorry, do you REALLY think we will go to war with Russia??

am I missing something here??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-British-Ambassador-Moscow-warns-Russia-invaded-Ukraine-difficult-avoid-going-war.html

The forgotten treaty which could drag the US and UK into WAR with Russia if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine

A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.
 
We will not go to war with Russia over Ukraine, fact is... We will never go to war against Russia, because that war would last around 8-10 minutes....

Even though somebody eye rolled this comment, you are likely correct. Britain would be no match for Russia in any kind of war, which is why I find it hilarious when Cameron and Hague try to tell Putin and Lavrov what to do, they don't care what Obama says let alone little old Britain's ministers!
 
areksnumbr1sxylady said:
Yeah well goodbye world then.... Treaties must be fulfilled even though it would mean an end to whole civilization...

Grow up.
This is serious you know, we could all be wiped out within 3-4 minutes.

Get laid while you can...
 
Even though somebody eye rolled this comment, you are likely correct. Britain would be no match for Russia in any kind of war.

I did not mean that Britain is no match for Russia in terms of warfare... In fact when I say "we" I meant whole NATO.

Bottom line is that if NATO and Russia go to war, as I said... It will last 8-10 minutes and those will be the last minutes of the world as we know....

Then its Fallout 4 time :D

I certainty dont want this happen over Ukraine.

I know our politicians are not the smartest bunch but I doubt they are interested in living in fallout 4 world, where they will have no skills to survive.
 
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We will not go to war with Russia over Ukraine, fact is... We will never go to war against Russia, because that war would last around 8-10 minutes....

Indeed, there's no way this is going to happen. Treaty or not, a solution will be found. People are getting carried away.
 
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