Soldato
Put that right.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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Put that right.
Caporegime
Great thread so far - many interesting viewpoints on the current situation over there.
If they cannot afford to maintain their normal military well enough,its a good thing they ditched them. Nuclear weapons need to be maintained and kept under decent security. If not they are a danger just sitting there in storage especially with a country which has 20+ years of poor governance and is in poor economic state.
Its easy to blame external countries,but most of the problems in the Ukraine are down to a weak political elite,plus general corruption and racism in the country as a whole.
By running to the Russians or the EU and US,the country is always going to be under the thumb of some more powerful country. It really needs less nationalism and more patriotism and people who generally care more about the country and all its different peoples,than currying favour with external forces or hating on different kinds of people.
Powerful countries only help weaker ones to help themselves and will exploit them. Its the reason why Europe and US sit on nearly 2/3 of the world's wealth alone,with barely 1 billion people out of the 7+ billion people on this planet.
If they cannot afford to maintain their normal military well enough,its a good thing they ditched them. Nuclear weapons need to be maintained and kept under decent security. If not they are a danger just sitting there in storage especially with a country which has 20+ years of poor governance and is in poor economic state.
Its easy to blame external countries,but most of the problems in the Ukraine are down to a weak political elite,plus general corruption and racism in the country as a whole.
By running to the Russians or the EU and US,the country is always going to be under the thumb of some more powerful country. It really needs less nationalism and more patriotism and people who generally care more about the country and all its different peoples,than currying favour with external forces or hating on different kinds of people.
Powerful countries only help weaker ones to help themselves and will exploit them. Its the reason why Europe and US sit on nearly 2/3 of the world's wealth alone,with barely 1 billion people out of the 7+ billion people on this planet.
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Soldato
Ukrainian Navy flagship takes Russia’s side – report
Most Ukrainian troops dispatched in Crimea switch to region’s side – sources
I wonder what that IMF puppet will do now?
Most Ukrainian troops dispatched in Crimea switch to region’s side – sources
I wonder what that IMF puppet will do now?
Soldato
I would love to see that from a source not owned by the Russian state - but its certainly interesting news...
Ukraine had an incompetent pro-Russia government
Most Ukrainians seemed to be opposed to the government, wanted a switch, and the opposition was pro-EU/West
Revolution happens
Russia starts moving military units around in the Crimea, which is a small portion of the Ukraine - population wise, smaller than Wales is in the UK - has a mostly Russian population, and several Russian military bases
EU/West is nervous as they see this as a possible attempt by Russia to take control of the Crimea, violating Ukrainian sovereignty
Most Ukrainians seemed to be opposed to the government, wanted a switch, and the opposition was pro-EU/West
Revolution happens
Russia starts moving military units around in the Crimea, which is a small portion of the Ukraine - population wise, smaller than Wales is in the UK - has a mostly Russian population, and several Russian military bases
EU/West is nervous as they see this as a possible attempt by Russia to take control of the Crimea, violating Ukrainian sovereignty
Soldato
Is there much difference between this situation and the one with Georgia? Russia will do as Russia wants.
I feel ultra glad the low rent street thugs and Nazi's now in power in Ukraine haven't got nukes.
@ThestigGT999, interesting news, tbh I think the gang in kiev won't last too long, both Stalin and Hitler cast long shadows in Ukraine and I can't see Ukranians putting up with stupid thugs in power.
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It's different as the Ukraine is more than 10x the size of Georgia and has a million reservists. It could probably defend itself against Russia mucking around. The difficult bit is working out how they can organise themselves.
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Associate
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You claimed that the interim government and protesters in the Ukraine were Nazis and Chechen rebels earlier in the thread. Did you come up with any evidence since then?
He has nothing because it's rubbish. Russian media is portraying the Ukrainian people and protesters as neo-nazis. There are some small groups but the overwhelming majority are normal peaceful Ukrainians.
Here's a typical protest, this pic was taken today outside the Russian consulate building in the city of Odessa in the southwest of Ukraine.
http://instagram.com/p/lC3mA8xG58/
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-right-sector-militants-210/
http://www.********.com/view?i=a86_1393511334
That's the fellow who joined chechen separatists.
Western media won't be mentioning this, it's surprising that bbc aknowledge existence of Right Sector in maidan at all, and they only mention it 3 months after protests started and downplay role and numbers.
Two main nationalistic parties are Right Sector and Svoboda. Played significant part in overthrowing Yanukovych as was most aggressive and willing group of protesters.
From my knowledge the current administration is essentially people who were in charge right after orange revolution and said nationalistic parties do not play a large role, however the russian language ban on municipal level was proposed and pushed by the nationalistic leader of svoboda if I am not mistaken.
I wrote it all before you guys conveniently overlooked it.
http://www.********.com/view?i=a0f_1393436865 in case people wont follow link from other video
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Copy and past job:
Nov 21: President Viktor Yanukovich announces abandonment of a trade agreement with the European Union, seeking closer ties with Moscow.
Nov 30: Public support grows for pro-EU anti-government protesters as images of them bloodied by police crackdown spread online and in the media.
Dec 1: About 300,000 people protest in Kiev's Independence Square. The City Hall is seized by activists.
Jan 16: Anti-protest laws are passed and quickly condemned as "draconian".
Dec 17: Russian President Vladimir Putin announces plans to buy $15bn in Ukrainian government bonds and a cut in cost of Russia's natural gas for Ukraine.
Jan 22: Two protesters die after being hit with live ammunition. A third dies following a fall during confrontation with police.
Jan 28: Prime Minister Mykola Azarov resigns and the parliament repeals anti-protest laws that caused the demonstrations to escalate in the first place.
Jan 29: A bill is passed, promising amnesty for arrested protesters if seized government buildings are relinquished.
Jan 31: Opposition activist Dmytro Bulatov found outside Kiev after being imprisoned and tortured for eight days, apparently at the hands of a pro-Russian group.
Feb 16: Opposition activists end occupation of Kiev City Hall. In exchange 234 jailed protesters are released.
Feb 18: More street clashes leave at least 18 dead and around a hundred injured. Violence begins when protesters attack police lines after the parliament stalls in passing constitutional reform to limit presidential powers. Protesters take back government buildings.
Feb 20: Violence resumes within hours of a truce being announced. Government snipers shoot protesters from rooftops leading to deadliest day of the crisis so far with over 70 deaths.
Feb 21: Protest leaders, the political opposition and Yanukovich agree to form a new government and hold early elections. Yanukovich's powers are slashed. The parliament votes to free Yulia Tymoshenko, the former prime minister, from prison. Yanukovych flees Kiev after protesters take control of the capital.
Feb 22: Ukraine politicians vote to remove Yanikovich. Tymoshenko is freed from prison and speaks to those gathered in Kiev. May 25 is set for fresh presidential elections.
Feb 23: Ukraine's parliament assigns presidential powers to its new
speaker, Oleksandr Turchinov, an ally of Tymoshenko. Pro-Russian protesters rally in Crimea against the new Kiev administration.
Feb 24: Ukraine's interim government draws up a warrant for Yanukovich's arrest.
Feb 25: Pro-Russian Aleksey Chaly is appointed Sevastopol’s de facto mayor as rallies in Crimea continue.
Feb 26: Crimean Tartars supporting the new Kiev administration clash with pro-Russia protesters in the region. Potential members of the new Ukrainian government appear before crowds in Independence Square. Turchinov announces disbanding of Berkut - the feared riot police. Russian troops near border with Ukraine are put on alert and drilled for "combat readiness".
Feb 27: Pro-Kremlin armed men seize government buildings in Crimea. Ukraine government vows to prevent a country break-up as Crimean parliament set May 25 as the date for referendum on region’s status. Yanukovich is granted refuge in Russia.
Feb 28: Armed men in unmarked combat fatigues seize Simferopol International Airport and a military airfield in Sevestopol. The Ukrainian government accuses Russia of aggression. United Nations Security Council holds an emergency closed-door session to discuss the situation in Crimea. The United States warns Russia of militarily intervening in Ukraine.
Moscow says military movements in Crimea are in line with previous agreements to protect its fleet position in the Black Sea. Yanukovich makes his first public appearance, in southern Russia.
March 1: As situation worsens in Crimea, local leaders ask for Russian President Vladimir Putin's help. Russian upper house of the parliament approves a request by Putin to use military power in Ukraine.
March 2: A convoy of hundreds of Russian troops heads towards the regional capital of Ukraine's Crimea region, a day after Russia's forces took over the strategic Black Sea peninsula without firing a shot.
Nov 30: Public support grows for pro-EU anti-government protesters as images of them bloodied by police crackdown spread online and in the media.
Dec 1: About 300,000 people protest in Kiev's Independence Square. The City Hall is seized by activists.
Jan 16: Anti-protest laws are passed and quickly condemned as "draconian".
Dec 17: Russian President Vladimir Putin announces plans to buy $15bn in Ukrainian government bonds and a cut in cost of Russia's natural gas for Ukraine.
Jan 22: Two protesters die after being hit with live ammunition. A third dies following a fall during confrontation with police.
Jan 28: Prime Minister Mykola Azarov resigns and the parliament repeals anti-protest laws that caused the demonstrations to escalate in the first place.
Jan 29: A bill is passed, promising amnesty for arrested protesters if seized government buildings are relinquished.
Jan 31: Opposition activist Dmytro Bulatov found outside Kiev after being imprisoned and tortured for eight days, apparently at the hands of a pro-Russian group.
Feb 16: Opposition activists end occupation of Kiev City Hall. In exchange 234 jailed protesters are released.
Feb 18: More street clashes leave at least 18 dead and around a hundred injured. Violence begins when protesters attack police lines after the parliament stalls in passing constitutional reform to limit presidential powers. Protesters take back government buildings.
Feb 20: Violence resumes within hours of a truce being announced. Government snipers shoot protesters from rooftops leading to deadliest day of the crisis so far with over 70 deaths.
Feb 21: Protest leaders, the political opposition and Yanukovich agree to form a new government and hold early elections. Yanukovich's powers are slashed. The parliament votes to free Yulia Tymoshenko, the former prime minister, from prison. Yanukovych flees Kiev after protesters take control of the capital.
Feb 22: Ukraine politicians vote to remove Yanikovich. Tymoshenko is freed from prison and speaks to those gathered in Kiev. May 25 is set for fresh presidential elections.
Feb 23: Ukraine's parliament assigns presidential powers to its new
speaker, Oleksandr Turchinov, an ally of Tymoshenko. Pro-Russian protesters rally in Crimea against the new Kiev administration.
Feb 24: Ukraine's interim government draws up a warrant for Yanukovich's arrest.
Feb 25: Pro-Russian Aleksey Chaly is appointed Sevastopol’s de facto mayor as rallies in Crimea continue.
Feb 26: Crimean Tartars supporting the new Kiev administration clash with pro-Russia protesters in the region. Potential members of the new Ukrainian government appear before crowds in Independence Square. Turchinov announces disbanding of Berkut - the feared riot police. Russian troops near border with Ukraine are put on alert and drilled for "combat readiness".
Feb 27: Pro-Kremlin armed men seize government buildings in Crimea. Ukraine government vows to prevent a country break-up as Crimean parliament set May 25 as the date for referendum on region’s status. Yanukovich is granted refuge in Russia.
Feb 28: Armed men in unmarked combat fatigues seize Simferopol International Airport and a military airfield in Sevestopol. The Ukrainian government accuses Russia of aggression. United Nations Security Council holds an emergency closed-door session to discuss the situation in Crimea. The United States warns Russia of militarily intervening in Ukraine.
Moscow says military movements in Crimea are in line with previous agreements to protect its fleet position in the Black Sea. Yanukovich makes his first public appearance, in southern Russia.
March 1: As situation worsens in Crimea, local leaders ask for Russian President Vladimir Putin's help. Russian upper house of the parliament approves a request by Putin to use military power in Ukraine.
March 2: A convoy of hundreds of Russian troops heads towards the regional capital of Ukraine's Crimea region, a day after Russia's forces took over the strategic Black Sea peninsula without firing a shot.
Not surprised BBC did not mention this they done it many times in the past overlooking both sides of the story as it will damage the public opion of our government and its allies e.g Iraq, Syria, Israel, Serbia, Georgia etc
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Soldato
Going to be a very one-sided war considering NATO currently accounts for nearly two thirds of global defence spending and nearly half of global GDP! NATO GDP is 15x that of Russia.
Soldato
Off you go then and let us know how you get on.
Yeah wouldn't want a radioactive wasteland on your backdoor *looks innocent*
Soldato
Isn't it a bit (actually very) hypocritical of the west to talk about sovereignty and not starting wars considering the illegal war in Iraq and the daily abuses of sovereignty in the middle east?
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