Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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You mean theres other news in the world besides BoJo's boozy parties?

I don't believe it.

Given that the totalitarian "elected" puppet is the reason why there's riots.. I suspect it's not a particularly text-book definition of a democracy.

Well considering they had a "revolution" to rid themselves of their pro-russian ex-puppet president, I'd say it was a substantial improvement on what they had previously (and why Putin wants it all back, piece by piece if he has to, as well as to why Belarus wasn't allowed to go the same way)
 
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Does seem a bit strange how the media and even governments reaction is as if Russia is about to invade in days
The thing I find crazy about it is how it's all escalated from literally nothing, it's like politicians on both sides hot air and postured themselves into an actually dangerous situation. Or as Hulk Hogan would say, worked themselves into a shoot.

I mean the timeline of this basically went: Russia sends troops to take part in a regular war games event a few hundred miles from Ukraine, western media start crowing about a potential invasion to sell papers/ads, hawkish western politicians start demanding Russia move it's troops away and threatening to arm Ukraine, Russia get's mad about being told where it can have it's troops in it's own country and starts making threats if the west arms Ukraine or lets it into NATO then moves it's troops closer (cos that will lower tensions lol), western politicians make threats/demands, Russian politicians make threats demands, western politicians make threats/demands, Russian politicians make threats demands, western leaders actually start arming Ukraine, Russia moves troops into Belarus in order to have a second invasion point.

It's ridiculous, like why are our leaders and theirs this retarded. It's literally the equivalent of two children walking towards each other windmilling their arms and yelling to back off >.>
 
The thing I find crazy about it is how it's all escalated from literally nothing, it's like politicians on both sides hot air and postured themselves into an actually dangerous situation. Or as Hulk Hogan would say, worked themselves into a shoot.

I mean the timeline of this basically went: Russia sends troops to take part in a regular war games event a few hundred miles from Ukraine, western media start crowing about a potential invasion to sell papers/ads, hawkish western politicians start demanding Russia move it's troops away and threatening to arm Ukraine, Russia get's mad about being told where it can have it's troops in it's own country and starts making threats if the west arms Ukraine or lets it into NATO then moves it's troops closer (cos that will lower tensions lol), western politicians make threats/demands, Russian politicians make threats demands, western politicians make threats/demands, Russian politicians make threats demands, western leaders actually start arming Ukraine, Russia moves troops into Belarus in order to have a second invasion point.

It's ridiculous, like why are our leaders and theirs this retarded. It's literally the equivalent of two children walking towards each other windmilling their arms and yelling to back off >.>

IMO it is more complicated than that - Russia/Putin made an overt show of troop movements either for political manoeuvring and/or to test the new US president (Biden) and it seems to have escalated from there. Now I think Russia smells weakness in Biden, especially after Afghanistan, and are pushing to see how far they can before there is any serious push back - I wouldn't want to make bets how this plays out as just about everything is wrong, the way NATO is handling it, the situation in Russia, etc.

It doesn't help that in two encounters between Putin and Biden, Biden did his normal bumbling thing and Putin ended up running rings around him - to the point Biden ended up lashing out at a reporter in frustration.

IMO the US is a bit too focussed on China at the moment while hamstringing the rest of NATO from responding to Russia not helped by Germany having a leg in both baskets.
 
Newspaper of record, the Daily Mail, notes that six Russian amphibious vessels might be enroute:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...itain-sparking-speculation-bound-Ukraine.html
Six Russian landing ships have sailed past Britain sparking speculation they are bound for an impending 'full-scale invasion' of Ukraine - as Kiev warns President Putin has 'nearly completed' the build-up of troops along the border.

Russia's Baltic Fleet vessels the Korolev, Minsk and Kaliningrad were today sailing south past the UK followed by Northern Fleet warships Olenegorsky Gornyak, Pyotr Morgunov, and Georgii Pobedonosets which passed the Great Belt Bridge in Denmark on Monday.

The ships, which can each carry up to 25 armoured personnel carriers, were deployed three days ago but it remains unclear if they are heading for Ukraine.


Also that 13,000 Russian troops are due to take part in exercises in Belarus.

In other news Germany is carrying on its role as Russia's bitch:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...les-arrive-Ukraine-Germany-BLOCKED-plane.html
Germany justifies its stance towards Russia by arguing it owes an historical debt to Moscow due to atrocities perpetrated by the Nazis against the Soviets during the Second World War.
 
The thing I find crazy about it is how it's all escalated from literally nothing, it's like politicians on both sides hot air and postured themselves into an actually dangerous situation. Or as Hulk Hogan would say, worked themselves into a shoot.

I mean the timeline of this basically went: Russia sends troops to take part in a regular war games event a few hundred miles from Ukraine, western media start crowing about a potential invasion to sell papers/ads, hawkish western politicians start demanding Russia move it's troops away and threatening to arm Ukraine, Russia get's mad about being told where it can have it's troops in it's own country and starts making threats if the west arms Ukraine or lets it into NATO then moves it's troops closer (cos that will lower tensions lol), western politicians make threats/demands, Russian politicians make threats demands, western politicians make threats/demands, Russian politicians make threats demands, western leaders actually start arming Ukraine, Russia moves troops into Belarus in order to have a second invasion point.

It's ridiculous, like why are our leaders and theirs this retarded. It's literally the equivalent of two children walking towards each other windmilling their arms and yelling to back off >.>

No it went.

Russia invaded took Crimea.
Russia invaded took the Donbass region.
Russia threatened Ukraine and the west and put over 100,000 troops on the border with Ukraine, why do they need to exercise bang on the border region with a country they are fighting !?
Russia wants all nato troops out of Poland and all eastern European countries and threatened Finland and Sweden.

So no, it's pretty much 110% one sided, unless we just let Putin do what he wants?
 
Germany has also blocked the final parts of a major oil pipeline from Russia I believe in retaliation so I wouldn't necessarily believe all of the Germany bashing. Germany is very much a part of the EU and would have nothing to gain from a stronger, bigger Russia surely?
 
It’s not looking good is it. It’s hard to imagine Putin not doing anything considering everything he’s sending there.

This is what is a bit confusing - earlier movements especially 1-2 years ago were largely for show, now all bets are off and there is limited political gains to be made from the kind of build up going on now and it potentially backs Russia into a corner where their bluff could be called, or just ignored, and then they look weak. But they just don't have the man power active as things go for a serious incursion into Ukraine unless they are convinced Ukraine will just fold and no one will help them at all. The forward staged forces are half of what would be required as a bare minimum if Ukraine put up any kind of fight and the mobilisations away from the region, which could be sent there for an invasion, are in the low 10s of thousands.

I wonder if a lot of the current concern is because it has finally percolated down that Russia used a certain amount of subterfuge with the last lost of movements to now build up a lot of equipment near Ukraine and now there is a lot of uncertainty as to their intentions.
 
My Brother-in-Law is currently in the far North of Finland for a week or so with work and has said that there are a lot of fast jets buzzing around the skies. My guess would be that they'll be monitoring what Russia is doing in, and around, Murmansk.
 
My Brother-in-Law is currently in the far North of Finland for a week or so with work and has said that there are a lot of fast jets buzzing around the skies. My guess would be that they'll be monitoring what Russia is doing in, and around, Murmansk.

Yeah lot of ISR, etc. flights out there (which would mostly be the bigger stuff not fast jets but it all plays into it) - seems NATO governments are taking it very seriously - more so than the face value publicly available information would suggest was necessary but no harm in being cautious and prepared. (Maybe they know something we don't).

Finland is being very bullish about it now.
 
No it went.

Russia invaded took Crimea.
Russia invaded took the Donbass region.
Russia threatened Ukraine and the west and put over 100,000 troops on the border with Ukraine, why do they need to exercise bang on the border region with a country they are fighting !?
Russia wants all nato troops out of Poland and all eastern European countries and threatened Finland and Sweden.

So no, it's pretty much 110% one sided, unless we just let Putin do what he wants?
I mean, if you're going to twist/omit facts then yes it would look 110% one sided >.>

To answer your points though:

No Russia didn't invade and take Crimea, their troops were already there (as part of an agreement with Ukraine) when the 2014 coup in Ukraine took place and the Crimean government took the opportunity to secede from Ukraine and hold a public vote on re-joining Russia (which passed, and Russia accepted). Now valid arguments can be made on both sides about whether Crimea should have done it, and whether Russia should have agreed to their request but it's a bit unfair to blame it on Russia when it was caused as a direct result of the Ukrainian coup, and Russia were by no means the cause of that. (NB: My personal thought on it are that Crimea should have waited after seceding before holding a vote on reunification, as the Russian presence would have stopped Ukraine from re-annexing the region so they had time to invite independent/UN/etc observers in to validate the result was genuine).

No Russia didn't invade and take the Donbass region, if they had done they would either have held or still hold the Donbass region, it wouldn't be mostly held by Ukrainian loyalists with Russian backed/armed/supplied rebels holding small territory in the far east. It should be noted that the rebel self proclaimed "republics" have repeatedly asked to join Russia and been repeatedly told no (NB: My personal thought on that last note is that Russia's refusals probably have less to do with caring about right/wrong and more due to such actions not having the international law precedent that Crimea's secession/reunification did, as self determination is easier to proclaim when you have an actual government and a history as a sovereign region/republic).

Firstly the troops/exercise weren't "bang on the border" (to put it in non-sensationalist perspective the British army hold training exercises in Britain that are closer to France that the exercise in question was to Ukraine). Secondly the reason they held the exercise in that part of Russia is because they have been doing so for decades, Ukraine even used to send forces to take part. It's never been a problem until the media started hyping it as one (which is what caused politicians to snowball this entire farcical standoff).

Your completely correct on your last point however and Russia are being flat out retarded if they think NATO will agree to pulling back troops (maybe they know this and are making crazy demands so they can fall back to their real demands and look like they gave ground?). Threatening Finland/Sweden not to join NATO is another dumb move, however the threat was basically "if you make yourselves a threat to us we will treat you as such" which is kind of understandable, but if they want to deter them from joining NATO they are going about it totally the wrong way. (NB: The funny thing is that even if NATO pulled all troops out of Poland and kicked Poland out of NATO it wouldn't matter because it would still be an EU state and if Russia invaded it would instantly be at war with the EU, most of which are in NATO xD).
 
In that respect the only thing this looks like accomplishing is pushing Finland towards NATO - their responses tonight, although the government stance is still it is very unlikely, is a definite step closer.
 
I've got a bad feeling Germany is going to come down on the wrong side of this again.
I dont see it. They have become a massive power on their own right through peaceful means, they are basically the core of Europe and I could never see certainly in my life time where they would choose war over their current arrangements of global power.

The pipeline is tricky for them , but there is absolutely no way they let Ukraine fall over some fuel.
 
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