Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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ihuyo said:
So, in this thread, multiple Europeans (yes, even Brits, and yes, even after Brexit) are speaking of the US in relation to a European conflict, and they are not only failing to immediately and consistently condemn the idea of direct US military involvement, but actually seem disappointed that it's "off the table"? And this not only after the recent disaster in Afghanistan, but also after the, well, you know...disasters of actual US military involvement in Europe in the 90s?

Can only guess that Clinton's cheating "scandal", Blair's media wave around then, short memories etc, have obscured the fact that Clinton was involved in more military conflicts than either of the Bushes, and Clinton mishandled his lot relatively almost as badly as Georgie the Younger et Dumber.

Biden, Trump et al are even more incompetent than Bush/Clinton (all of them scum, BTW), and the US military is even more compromised than back then...so what the **** does tell you? ******* armchair generals. You'd be more fool to think the US isn't doing plenty indirectly/covertly - but US sabre rattling, oh the epic US sabre rattling, everything's so ******* boring without that!!1
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Personally my concerns are with the Biden administration rather than US involvement, etc. Biden has managed to make the US look weak, weaker than it actually is, to would be hostile actors and that has upped the risk. There is a very fine balance to it though - this needs a robust and united front from the West but balanced without being too confrontational and that isn't just about the US - many of the EU states are doing their own thing/looking to their own interests as well.

I suspect a significant if not fundamental factor in this whole situation is Putin seeing how far he can push Biden before there is a real push back and that is highly risky - especially as the US is refocussing a lot on China at the moment. (The one redeeming feature with Trump he was so unpredictable it kept opposing actors guessing).
 
ihuyo said:
So, in this thread, multiple Europeans (yes, even Brits, and yes, even after Brexit) are speaking of the US in relation to a European conflict, and they are not only failing to immediately and consistently condemn the idea of direct US military involvement, but actually seem disappointed that it's "off the table"? And this not only after the recent disaster in Afghanistan, but also after the, well, you know...disasters of actual US military involvement in Europe in the 90s?
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So countries are just supposed to stand idle and let Russia annexe whatever former USSR country it desires ?

Didn't WW2 have similar origins with everybody being chill with Hitler annexing the Sudetenland ?
 
Rilot said:
I'm actually less concerned about Russia invading Ukraine and more concerned about about having our ships and theirs in close proximity in the Black Sea, and their planes and ours in the skies around Ukraine. It only takes one pilot with an itchy trigger finger and we have a major conflict.
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I think we should increase our presence for exactly that reason, make it abundantly clear that Russia either leaves Ukraine alone or we all lose.
 
HACO said:
We're basically one madman's decision away from WW3 at this point.
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Russia is scraping the barrel with their standing forces to pull enough together for an invasion of Ukraine without leaving their other interests vulnerable - they won't be eager to get into a large scale confrontation with multiple nations.

Some analysts think they might create a wider front including the Baltics, etc. so as to then draw back from those areas as a concession while still staying in Ukraine.
 
I'd like to think that this will be a wake up call to EU and GB that they can no longer hide behind the US military, it's about time we started to invest instead of constant cutting because apparently this scenario would never ever happen and we will never need armour and heavy artillery because nations in Europe will never be at war again.

And here we are with a potential full on armoured peer on peer war.
 
Rroff said:
Personally my concerns are with the Biden administration rather than US involvement, etc. Biden has managed to make the US look weak, weaker than it actually is, to would be hostile actors and that has upped the risk. There is a very fine balance to it though - this needs a robust and united front from the West but balanced without being too confrontational and that isn't just about the US - many of the EU states are doing their own thing/looking to their own interests as well.

I suspect a significant if not fundamental factor in this whole situation is Putin seeing how far he can push Biden before there is a real push back and that is highly risky - especially as the US is refocussing a lot on China at the moment. (The one redeeming feature with Trump he was so unpredictable it kept opposing actors guessing).
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It just goes to show that the west (mainly the US) isn't able to act/cope with what we call sub-threshold conflict or "the grey area". Meanwhile, other hostile states continue to gain ground through coercion, subversion, espionage and covert means. All the while the huge US military machine has no answer, it's set up for all or nothing, hence why military budget is a really poor way to consider this situation like we mentioned earlier.
 
RoboCod said:
It just goes to show that the west (mainly the US) isn't able to act/cope with what we call sub-threshold conflict or "the grey area". Meanwhile, other hostile states continue to gain ground through coercion, subversion, espionage and covert means. All the while the huge US military machine has no answer, it's set up for all or nothing, hence why military budget is a really poor way to consider this situation like we mentioned earlier.
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Doesn't help we've set rules of conduct, etc. for ourselves which other actors aren't necessarily compelled to comply with - putting us at a disadvantage until conflict becomes open.
 
Rroff said:
Doesn't help we've set rules of conduct, etc. for ourselves which other actors aren't necessarily compelled to comply with - putting us at a disadvantage until conflict becomes open.
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I think it's mostly the issue that the US military, doctrine and policy means that they operate in a linear fashion with a phasing and triggers construct for them to gain understanding of situations. They apply this phasing construct to all situations and this relies on reaching a tipping point that validates a violent response from the US machine. No coincidence then that Russia and China have operated in the grey zone for a long time now and below that trigger point that would warrant a justified violent reaction by the US military.
 
StriderX said:
I know it's not publicly shared, but the defcon level must be 3 at this point right?
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The only public information suggests 4. Probably won't change to 3 over this unless Russia starts moving nuclear weapons forward or massed armour + personnel is on the move, etc. rather than just in transit.

Couple of videos I've seen tonight seem to suggest soldiers positioned a few miles from the front are settling in for a long stay - building up fuel for heating, food and other supplies like they don't expect to be moving out any time soon - neither drawn down or sent into action - though that doesn't necessarily mean much.
 
It's not the large number of troops just the side of the border that worries me, it's these spooky little buggers that mysteriously appear just before the proverbial hits the fan.

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Rroff said:
Doesn't help we've set rules of conduct, etc. for ourselves which other actors aren't necessarily compelled to comply with - putting us at a disadvantage until conflict becomes open.
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This, we would never do half the things other states like Russia,China and Iran do as we have put ourselves on some kind of pedestal with how you should act in a war or in these kind of grey area/Little green men scenarios.
 
dave28 said:
"Britain sends 2,000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine"

Seen this headline on Sky today, they must feel its likely to kick off soon.
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Apart from the appauling loss of life at least war is entertaining, I look forward to seeing footage of them being used, I watched a female ukrainian sniper taking out some ruskies the other day.

2022, what a time to be alive.
 
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