Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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I'll be honest and say I think that 'offer' is probably legitimate and the only likely path out of the immediate conflict. Whilst Ukraine are doing amazingly well, they are supported by huge Western support, and that western support is feeling the strain of energy and cost of living issues sourced by this conflict. The west want this to end and as soon as possible. Russian keeping Crimea and Ukraine keeping everything else would achieve that - but it gives Putin nothing.
China sounds like they want an end to it too. Especially after reading the riot act about nuclear retoric.

The offer is not that putin succeeds but offers an offramp. However i would be tempted yo drive the nail home to break putin.

The issue with leaving putin in power, it sees a decade of rebuilding of forces, schooled dogma for new troops to support then world tour “special operation”.
 
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So basically... 'we got away with it' if they accept it. Russian troops can't be prosecuted if they don't leave Russia... so that's kinda moot.

DPR/LPR might just lose their minds if this happened as well.
Got away with decimating their own Armed Forces, losing the respect (and fear) of the world community, being humiliated. As much as they might like to pretend this is a war with NATO, it isn't and they need to face the reality of what that would look like and forget thinking they have a chance in that confrontation.

They are going to think long and hard before going on an adventure like this again.

As I've said before my concern is they do learn from this and actually re-build a capable army, but I'm not convinced they can have a large well trained force - either small and competent or large and ineffective; it's a big country, they will probably have to go with big and ineffective.

Ukraine might want to go for Crimea, but if the west say they have to take the deal or they are on there own, well Ukraine probably need to take the deal.
 
They might learn but that goes directly against the stability of their kleptocracy so probably just revert to form by going straight back to outsourcing everything whilst slapping a Russian sticker on it to pretend otherwise. I think it's fairly likely that they will almost immediately flatten Georgia if they're just allowed to scurry away as a means to look 'tough' again.
 
We passed the 80000 mark! :eek:
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I think the proposed peaceful settlement, were Russia withdraws from everywhere they occupied except Crimea, which is demilitarized, is possibly the best outcome that can be hoped for. Although the Ukrainians may consider it an inviolable part of Ukraine, it has only been so since 1954 when it was unilaterally transferred, under Khrushchev. Ethnicly Ukranains are very much a minority there, the main population was over 60% Russian and Russian-speaking, even before any population transfers since being annexed in 2014.
Demographics_of_Crimea

You have to consider practicalities and be realistic. The reason the allies were able to put the senior Nazis and war criminals on trial and execute them for war crimes was becacuse the allies demanded unconditional surrender, and enforced it - Germany itself was invaded and occupied. Even Japan only had very senior leaders put on trial despite unconditional surrender. Are we going to rely on the Ukraine getting to Moscow, because I cant see any Russian regime accepting it otherwise? So Putin and his cronies being put on trial as a demand of the west is not going to happen. Weakened though, he may be put on trial by the Russians themselves, in time.

As for militarily... the Ukrainians may well be able to take back the Donbas, if Western support continues. If. But with the west entering recession and the possibility of a Republican administration in the USA in two years, it's a big 'if'. An opposed crossing of the Dnipro River looks to be a big challenge... and after that, advancing down into Crimea through that narrow choke point, onto the peninsula... long supply lines, with Russia having some dominance in the air and on the black sea... very formidable. And then holding it, frozen in, like the Korean war? Whereas a peace deal makes some kind of NATO membership for Ukraine at least possible.
 
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I think the proposed peaceful settlement, were Russia withdraws from everywhere they occupied except Crimea, which is demilitarized, is possibly the best outcome that can be hoped for. Although the Ukrainians may consider it an inviolable part of Ukraine, it has only been so since 1954 when it was unilaterally transferred, under Khrushchev. Ethnicly Ukranains are very much a minority there, the main population was over 60% Russian and Russian-speaking, even before any population transfers since being annexed in 2014.
Demographics_of_Crimea

You have to consider practicalities and be realistic. The reason the allies were able to put the senior Nazis and war criminals on trial and execute them for war crimes was becacuse the allies demanded unconditional surrender, and enforced it - Germany itself was invaded and occupied. Even Japan only had very senior leaders put on trial despite unconditional surrender. Are we going to rely on the Ukraine getting to Moscow, because I cant see any Russian regime accepting it otherwise? So Putin and his cronies being put on trial as a demand of the west is not going to happen. Weakened though, he may be put on trial by the Russians themselves, in time.

As for militarily... the Ukrainians may well be able to take back the Donbas, if Western support continues. If. But with the west entering recession and the possibility of a Republican administration in the USA in two years, it's a big 'if'. An opposed crossing of the Dnipro River looks to be a big challenge... and after that, advancing down into Crimea through that narrow choke point, onto the peninsula... long supply lines, with Russia having some dominance in the air and on the black sea... very formidable. And then holding it, frozen in, like the Korean war? Whereas a peace deal makes some kind of NATO membership for Ukraine at least possible.

No? Are you Russian? The best is Russia leaves Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea and immediately starts paying reparations. This is the stated goal of Ukraine.
 
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