Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why doesn't the US just send some M60s then. Much easier to use and maintain than the M1. Germany didn't say the US must send the M1, they said "send American MBT" - ok so send some of the M60s they still have lots of them
 
M60A3-TTS

Still lots around, even overseas - Egypt still has 1700 of them in active service and Turkey 900 of them, Taiwan has 400 of them.

The US could even just buy them back from Egypt or Turkey and send to Ukraine
 
Last edited:
If we don't send more tanks, arty and long range strike missiles then we are showing the world that the west , after Afghanistan, doesn't have the stomach for a fight to uphold it's values and Putin/Xi's new world order will arrive asap
.
We might as well stop spending money and bend over and be done with it

US playing the bleeding game and possibly not wanting top end tech in China's hands card

German gov playing the 'we owe Russia still after ww2 also we are corrupt ' card
Also the ' it's up to the US to defend Europe, not us BS '


Hungary playing the ' hey dictatorships are legit' card

Switzerland playing the ' hey russian oligarchs stash lots of money here, just like the Nazis did, were are cool ' card

UK playing the ' we will send them everything we have, but we have bugger all because we don't invest ourselves so hope these tokens will spur others to do so' card

Poland and eastern nations playing the ' Jesus people we know what the Russians are like! Listen to us and send everything ' cards



Can someone explain what happens if a nation sends tanks without Berlin's approval?
 
It would be a breach of contract which Berlin could then take to court or just refuse to participate further in that contract and future ones; so they could be cut off from further weapons sales, parts, maintenance, training or w/e else

If there is any chance you plan on buying future German supplies in the short or medium term then it could be a bad idea to breach contracts. The next German government might come in and say all is forgiven, back to business but who knows how long that will take
 
Last edited:
Some headlines from yesterday:

*Blinken Says U.S. Will Provide $125 Million to Ukraine to Support Energy Grid in Face of Russia Attacks
*Berlin Won’t Allow Exports of German Tanks to Ukraine Unless U.S. Sends Own Tanks, Officials Say - WSJ
*U.S. Is Finalizing a Massive Package of Military Aid for Ukraine That U.S. Officials Say Is Likely to Total As Much As $2.6 Billion - AP
- - - expected to include for the first time nearly 100 Stryker combat vehicles and at least 50 Bradley armored vehicles

Senior Pentagon Official:
- Russia’s Changing Military Command Structure for Ukraine War Is ‘Kind of Like a Reality TV Show’
- U.S., Allies Want to Change Dynamic in Ukraine War With New Arms
- U.S. Has Never Argued That Crimea Is Off-Limits for Ukrainian Strikes Against Russian Forces
https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...-ukraine-war-without-abrams-tanks-2023-01-18/
 
Last edited:
Russian FSB Security Service:
- It Has Opened Criminal Case Against U.S. Citizen on Suspicion of Espionage
- U.S. Citizen Is Suspected of Gathering ‘Biological Intelligence Information’

*Russian Former President Medvedev: Defeat of Nuclear Power in a Conventional War May Trigger a Nuclear War
https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ar-war-if-russia-defeated-ukraine-2023-01-19/

Head of Ukraine’s Presidential Office:
- Matter of Tank and Air Defence Supplies to Ukraine Must Be Resolved As Fast As Possible
- ‘We Have No Time, the World Has No Time’

*Estonia to Send €113M in Weapons Aid to Ukraine
https://www.err.ee/1608855515/eesti-annab-ukrainale-seni-suurima-koguse-sojalist-abi
 
Last edited:
Give Ukraine the same number of M-1’s as Poland have Leopard 2’s, but keep them right on the Polish border. Once Germany ok’s the release of Leopard 2’s to Ukraine, Ukraine swaps “their” M-1’s for the Polish Leopard 2’s.
 
New German Defence Minister Pistorius:
- Task Ahead Is a Huge Challenge
- Russia Conducting Horrendous War Against Ukraine, We Are Affected
- Now We Need to Make German Armed Forces Strong
- The Biggest Part of Upgrading German Armed Forces Is Ahead of Us
- My Task Is to Enable German Military to Do Its Job

*EU’s Michel Says He Is in Kyiv for Talks

Swedish PM Kristersson:
- Govt Has Taken Decision on Additional Support for Ukraine
- To Supply Archer Artillery System to Ukraine
- To Supply Armoured Vehicles and Anti-Tank Missiles, Also Cooperate With Ukraine on Procurement
- To Supply About 50 Type 90 Infantry Fighting Vehicles
https://youtu.be/IdTeVpz7h8g - Press Conference (in Swedish)
 
Last edited:
Grim5 said:
It would be a breach of contract which Berlin could then take to court or just refuse to participate further in that contract and future ones; so they could be cut off from further weapons sales, parts, maintenance, training or w/e else

If there is any chance you plan on buying future German supplies in the short or medium term then it could be a bad idea to breach contracts. The next German government might come in and say all is forgiven, back to business but who knows how long that will take
Click to expand...

Yep its basically a game of Chicken as I alluded to in my last post

Its a relationship based on contracts.
Most countries with defence sectors want to sell arms, they are highly profitable and a great way of earning back a good chunk of that defence spend.
Its why western countries had to agree to stop selling to the worst countries for human rights etc, they also happened to be those most willing to spend large chunks of their GDP on arms. (Of course it just opened the door more for places like Russia...)

Which makes the whole sold weapons being passed on a game of chicken and egg. If I am buying $2Bn dollars of equipment from you every year and you know I want more, but I say I am going to supply some of my existing stocks to another country that the vast majority of the world support are you really going to go, oh breach of contrat we wont sell you any more. When some of your direct competitors are also supply weaponry to the country who needs it. When I rock up next year and some, heres my order for some more of those tanks, would you really go, nope sorry no more go to one of our competitor nations?

The swiss are also in this as well. Some of the ammunition is made in Switzerland, the famous neutrality kings. Why anyone would buy anything military from Switzerland that had a usage restriction is beyond me. They are basically guaranteed to reject any request that involved anything they make being able to be used outside their borders for an active military use (ie not training).

Its that mindset of its not really going to happen playing out over and over here, and the fact its allowed penny pinching to become a significant factor in western arms manufacturing and deals.
 
Turn said:
*Senior Pentagon Official: U.S. Has Never Argued That Crimea Is Off-Limits for Ukrainian Strikes Against Russian Forces
Click to expand...
Turn said:
*Russian Former President Medvedev: Defeat of Nuclear Power in a Conventional War May Trigger a Nuclear War
Click to expand...
Kremlin:
- Asked About Possible Strikes on Crimea With U.S.-Supplied Weapons: This Would Mean the Escalation of the Conflict to a New Level
- Long-Range Arms Supply To Ukraine Very Dangerous
- Medvedev Comments on Danger of Nuclear War Are Completely in Accordance With Russia’s Nuclear Doctrine
- Russia Is Not Changing Nuclear Doctrine
- The Sooner Ukraine Shows Readiness to Meet Russian Demands, the Faster This Conflict Will End
- For Zelensky And The Kyiv Regime, It Is Best That President Putin And Russia No Longer Exist
 
Last edited:
Turn said:
New German Defence Minister Pistorius:
- Task Ahead Is a Huge Challenge
- Russia Conducting Horrendous War Against Ukraine, We Are Affected
- Now We Need to Make German Armed Forces Strong
- The Biggest Part of Upgrading German Armed Forces Is Ahead of US
- My Task Is to Enable German Military to Do Its Job
Click to expand...

This doesn't sound great.

Is Germany signalling they prioritise their own forces over supporting Ukraine?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom