Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Scougar said:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH.

Please, if you could just nail down for us exactly which of Russia's claims are? You're going to have trouble here, because they keep changing to suit whatever motives they have. It's like they are the Daily Mail of Countries, maybe even contradicting themselves the same day.

Sounds like you got suckered into believing Russia's propaganda.

What does Russia want? Land, power and money. Those in charge don't give a **** about 'westernisation'. They just use it when it suits their needs. They want everything western whilst pretending not to.

If you truly believe this started from what Russia is saying, frankly, you're a fool. Let me give you the example of Crimea. One of the things they want is the Sevastopol naval base for the black sea. This is ONE of the reasons Crimea holds such importance.
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I don’t think you understand what you’re saying let alone what I’m saying.


I’m not going to respond to you anymore, it’s pointless.
 
arctine said:
Well, now I disagree. I think it’s important to understand their motivation whether you believe their actions are justified or not. Someone evidently does think it’s justified and if we don’t attempt to understand why it would be even more difficult to predict their actions. It’s also incredibly naive to presume your point of view is correct if you haven’t taken the time to understand what the other point of view is.

The most worrying thing I see displayed is that people don’t believe their is any other point of view. That kind of ignorance is dangerous.

I also disagree that Russia is doing this in order to remain relevant. I think it’s much more complicated than that and you probably do too.
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To me it doesn't matter, is a murderer ever justified in killing someone? same thing applies to starting a war, especially in this day and age where WW2 isn't that long ago in most peoples understanding of history.

Russia can paint it up however they want to, but they are invading another country and killing people, committing verified atrocities/war crimes in the process.

The primary reason for this war is because of imperialism and resources if you ask me. Russia will never admit it though.
 
arctine said:
I haven’t made that claim…. So I’ll ignore your request and give you some useful information.

Threats are not necessarily aggressive.

There are several things about ‘The West’ that threaten what Russians believe Russia is. There’s a word for it in fact… westernisation.

It amazes me how ignorant and arrogant people in this thread are. It’s been laid out very clearly what this conflict is about and what led to its beginning. Putin is not an idiot and he has articulated his outlook in great depth.

Your point of view is subjective. Your frames of reference and perception are not universal.

Just to make it clear before nonsense ensues, this is not an advocation of any actions by Russia. I do not agree with this conflict. I just also took the time to understand why it started instead of pretending RUSSIANS BAD ME GOOD.
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We live in a world where countries are free to do as they please, they are sovereign. Those countries in Eastern Europe decided after decades of living under brutal Russian rule that they would like to live free in democracies and the West offered them stability, trade and a mutual defence alliance. If Russia didn't want to dominate those countries maybe they would have decided not to move towards the West and NATO but that isn't Russia and that isn't Putin. I don't care what Putin's reasons are. He wants the return of the Russian Empire and a return to borders before the USSR imploded. No one else wants that. Russia doesn't get to dictate and we have to back Ukraine to victory now, we are all in at this point.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
We live in a world where countries are free to do as they please, they are sovereign. Those countries in Eastern Europe decided after decades of living under brutal Russian rule that they would like to live free in democracies and the West offered them stability, trade and a mutual defence alliance. If Russia didn't want to dominate those countries maybe they would have decided not to move towards the West and NATO but that isn't Russia and that isn't Putin. I don't care what Putin's reasons are. He wants the return of the Russian Empire and a return to borders before the USSR imploded. No one else wants that. Russia doesn't get to dictate and we have to back Ukraine to victory now, we are all in at this point.
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Good example is Poland how this country changed since get rid of communist and Russia influence.
 
arctine said:
I don’t think you understand what you’re saying let alone what I’m saying.


I’m not going to respond to you anymore, it’s pointless.
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I understand just fine. I think it's you that doesn't. Russia makes it up as it goes along. There is no other reason other than 'they want it'.

Oh, p.s. My wife spent time in Russia as part of her work, so we have lots to talk about in these matters. It's OK though, it's all just pointless right....
 
arctine said:
I haven’t made that claim…. So I’ll ignore your request and give you some useful information.

Threats are not necessarily aggressive.

There are several things about ‘The West’ that threaten what Russians believe Russia is. There’s a word for it in fact… westernisation.

It amazes me how ignorant and arrogant people in this thread are. It’s been laid out very clearly what this conflict is about and what led to its beginning. Putin is not an idiot and he has articulated his outlook in great depth.

Your point of view is subjective. Your frames of reference and perception are not universal.

Just to make it clear before nonsense ensues, this is not an advocation of any actions by Russia. I do not agree with this conflict. I just also took the time to understand why it started instead of pretending RUSSIANS BAD ME GOOD.
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And if there were an honest election held do you think the Russian people would still support Putin? I think if they were fairly informed and able to express an opinion then Putin would be removed from power. He knew that and crushed any opposition while oppressing the people and removing their freedoms. Russians may not be BAD but their leaders and political system definitely are.
 
arctine said:
It amazes me how ignorant and arrogant people in this thread are. It’s been laid out very clearly what this conflict is about and what led to its beginning. Putin is not an idiot and he has articulated his outlook in great depth.
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The only thing I will allow is that people don't listen to what Putin is actually saying, write everything off as bluster and hence were surprised when war actually kicked off despite Putin signalling it for weeks and will likely be surprised and confounded when he escalates again as people are still writing it all off as bluster. Beyond that most of what motivates Putin isn't anything right or correct and what he or Russia actually does is often very different to what they say and they spend a lot of time distorting the truth with what they say for instance blaming the West for something, which it is innocent of, leading up to the discovery of Russia doing that thing.

Ultimately what a lot of this war boils down to is Putin's megalomania, desire to cling on to power and unable to allow the progress Ukraine was making as it made him and the conditions in Russia look bad.
 
So this is the latet
Johno please? said:
The same galloway who visits dictators like saddam and assad and praises them? lol hes a fascist dressed up as a socialist.

Deny it if you want, doesn't stop it being a fact and takes anyone about 1 minute to check.
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Look up the word facist. It seems like its one of the few words you know probably brainwashed into you from university.
 
Rroff said:
The only thing I will allow is that people don't listen to what Putin is actually saying, write everything off as bluster and hence were surprised when war actually kicked off despite Putin signalling it for weeks and will likely be surprised and confounded when he escalates again as people are still writing it all off as bluster.
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It's hard to take anything he says properly seriously, because a lot of what comes out of the Kremlin is lies and misdirection.

They were saying they wouldn't attack before they did as well, if it serves a purpose or an agenda they'll say basically anything!

This attitude of playing fast and loose with facts means that you can't really trust them to uphold anything they say they'll do.
 
HungryHippos said:
It's hard to take anything he says properly seriously, because a lot of what comes out of the Kremlin is lies and misdirection.

They were saying they wouldn't attack before they did as well, if it serves a purpose or an agenda they'll say basically anything!

This attitude of playing fast and loose with facts means that you can't really trust them to uphold anything they say they'll do.
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Absolutely - but there is also subtext there with Putin which people don't seem to take seriously and eventually his ego can't take being ignored.
 
Twinz said:
Trying to pacify his ego is a fool's errand. He must not be allowed to gain anything from this.
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I'm certainly not one for advocating pacifying his ego or appeasement but we do need to be a bit less complacent IMO. Even though there is a lot of bluster and lies it isn't always empty words and Putin will almost certainly seek another major escalation yet in Ukraine.
 
sityeuropa said:
So this is the latet


Look up the word facist. It seems like its one of the few words you know probably brainwashed into you from university.
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facist

noun​

  1. Common misspelling of fascist.

LOL.

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So.. Fascism:

  • A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
  • A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
  • Oppressive, dictatorial control.

So I'm a little lost what you're trying to make a point of here. Fits the bill pretty well.

news.yahoo.com

Yes, Putin and Russia are fascist – a political scientist shows how they meet the textbook definition

Russian President Vladimir Putin on stage during a rally in Moscow on March 18, 2022. Sergei Guneyev/Pool/AFP via Getty ImagesWhen Vladimir Putin unleashed an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2022, the Ukrainian media, public and policymakers almost unanimously began calling the...
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com
 
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Twinz said:
That sounds like a difference without distinction.

What if his ego can't take defeat? He still needs to be defeated.
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I'm just saying we need to be smarter about it, pre-empt things, etc.

There is a risk we play into his hands because people are so convinced there is nothing there but bluster.
 
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