Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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Interesting idea: The USA say Abrams won't be ready for some time and Leopards/etc may be looking to take a while too. So as a stopgap why don't the US/EU offer some cheap/free future build tanks to Thailand if they agree to send Ukraine the 50x T-84 that Ukraine built for them a few years back. Ukraine could really use them right now as they have tankers trained on them, they have the ammo/parts for them and they've proven during the last 12 months they're way better than Russia's T-90.
For those not up on Soviet tanks and their weird numbering, the Ukrainian T-84 is an upgraded/modernized version of the Ukrainian T-80. The Russian T-90 is an upgraded/modernized version of the Russian T-72.
For those actually interested in the reasoning behind the confusing numbering system:
The USSR had two main tank design/production facilities, one in Ukraine who created/built the T-55 and one in Russia who created/built the T-62 (an improved T-55). During the fifties Moscow tasked the Ukrainian plant to build a successor to the T-55 which would compliment the T-62 as a bigger more capable brother and they came up with the T-64. Although awesome the T-64 was complicated and expensive, requiring more maintenance than previous Soviet tanks. Due to this the Russian plant designed the T-72 as an emergency option (so in times of war there was a cheaper/simpler alternative to the T-64), however because of politics the T-72 actually went into production as it was half the price (this also made it a viable T-62 replacement for export customers). The T-80 entered the story in the seventies and was designed as a hybrid combining the best concepts from the T-64 and T-72, it would be produced in both Russian and Ukraine and was the first mass produced tank to feature a gas turbine engine (replaced by a diesel engine in the Ukrainian version).
We now enter the eighties and the USSR is going bankrupt, continuing to develop the T-64 (their best but expensive tank), the T-72 (their budget tank that's popular with export markets) and the T-80 (their yet unproven hybrid design) is unsustainable so they decide to focus on just the T-72 in an effort to save money. This leads to the development of the T-72BU. The USSR then dissolved and during the nineties Russia renamed the T-72BU to the T-90, in the hope that it would make export customers feel better about buying an upgraded variant of the USSR's 3rd best tank (this is not a joke). The T-84 now comes in (yes it was designed a decade after the T-90, I said the numbering was confusing) as the Ukrainian plant has perfected the T-80 design and want to differentiate it from Russia's T-80 design (which isn't as good).
Other notable tanks from this confusing series are the Yugoslavian M-84 (a T-72 variant), the Polish PT-91 (T-72 variant) and the Iranian T-72Z (this one's a T-55 variant).
For those not up on Soviet tanks and their weird numbering, the Ukrainian T-84 is an upgraded/modernized version of the Ukrainian T-80. The Russian T-90 is an upgraded/modernized version of the Russian T-72.
For those actually interested in the reasoning behind the confusing numbering system:
The USSR had two main tank design/production facilities, one in Ukraine who created/built the T-55 and one in Russia who created/built the T-62 (an improved T-55). During the fifties Moscow tasked the Ukrainian plant to build a successor to the T-55 which would compliment the T-62 as a bigger more capable brother and they came up with the T-64. Although awesome the T-64 was complicated and expensive, requiring more maintenance than previous Soviet tanks. Due to this the Russian plant designed the T-72 as an emergency option (so in times of war there was a cheaper/simpler alternative to the T-64), however because of politics the T-72 actually went into production as it was half the price (this also made it a viable T-62 replacement for export customers). The T-80 entered the story in the seventies and was designed as a hybrid combining the best concepts from the T-64 and T-72, it would be produced in both Russian and Ukraine and was the first mass produced tank to feature a gas turbine engine (replaced by a diesel engine in the Ukrainian version).
We now enter the eighties and the USSR is going bankrupt, continuing to develop the T-64 (their best but expensive tank), the T-72 (their budget tank that's popular with export markets) and the T-80 (their yet unproven hybrid design) is unsustainable so they decide to focus on just the T-72 in an effort to save money. This leads to the development of the T-72BU. The USSR then dissolved and during the nineties Russia renamed the T-72BU to the T-90, in the hope that it would make export customers feel better about buying an upgraded variant of the USSR's 3rd best tank (this is not a joke). The T-84 now comes in (yes it was designed a decade after the T-90, I said the numbering was confusing) as the Ukrainian plant has perfected the T-80 design and want to differentiate it from Russia's T-80 design (which isn't as good).
Other notable tanks from this confusing series are the Yugoslavian M-84 (a T-72 variant), the Polish PT-91 (T-72 variant) and the Iranian T-72Z (this one's a T-55 variant).
Germany could propose refurbished Challenger 1 Main Battle Tanks to Uk
According to information published by the German Newspaper "Handelsblatt" on January 20, 2023, the defense industry of Germany could propose refurbished ex
armyrecognition.com
Far quicker and cheaper to get the 400 Challenger 1`s back from Jordan and the 250 FV4030/2 (4030 Phase 2 Jordan) aka the Chieftain mk 13.
Is Thailand interested in getting involved? I haven't heard anything about their stance on all this.
I also think the US would have planned it better. Heck, any army would have. The whole build up and down of forces multiple of times; will they, won't they attack? It sounded like their own forces had a few days notice to draw up plans and take out a peer (not in numbers but bulk of equipment being v. similar) neighbour. Little wonder it all fell apart after a few days when, and this is where Zelensky gets a huge amount of credit, the Ukrainians didn't cut and run. In the north at least.
US airstrikes via cruise missiles I'd imagine would have been far more numerous and a dagger to the heart. SAM sites etc would not have had a good day allowing stealth aircraft in to hunt for mobile units and after that everything else can follow.
The slow delivery times comes down to preparation of the equipment, all servicing maintenance and certification of the vehicles, the removal of classified/sensitive equipment (Radios, computer systems etc) and the training on the operation of the systems. Thats before we even factor in the logistics of transporting it thousands of miles.
These countries arnt just being obtuse and dragging it out for the sake of it.
The kit that Thailand holds would be no different.
That stuff would take even longer to get in proper serviceable state. Lots of reporting saying they are in a bad way. No point in fielding equipment that is going to be more a hindrance than an asset.
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Royal Air Force Fly? Interesting?
First lot of tankies
Whats interesting about that? The fact that the flight actually made it?
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Is it been keep in secret?
? OP Interflex the UK's support mission to Ukraine is no secret, its widely known.
The flight itself wouldnt have entered Ukrainian Airspace. The Tankies would have been forward loaded to a staging point then flown on from there.
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I know that but why would you risk a plane if Poland is next to it?
It flew out of Poland?
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Probably. Loads of NATO flights in and out of Poland daily.
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That what I was thinking.
Because if you're not in Ukraine you are not being shot at and Russia certainly aren't dumb enough to be shooting at RAF. There is no risk there.
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Very little reporting actually; a lot of the comments are that Jordan keep the armed forces in a good condition, some argue better than UK kit.
Their Challenger 1's are not in a great state. They are for the most part decent and functioning, but will require refurbishment and some refitting before being put to task, absolutely not a quick solution. Regardless, has Jordan even shown any inclination they are willing to hand them over?
The wheels are already in motion for tanks and the ones already pledged are likely to be the quickest solution albeit not quick enough.
The decision to hand over modern MBT's was not made anywhere near early enough. but alas this is the situation that we are in.
I work with a Tanky who has been out in Jordan on exercise with them.
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